Are we on the brink of World War III?

[Estil | 1,291]

So apparently Putin is now putting his nukes on "high alert"???  Has he gone mad?

To put that into perspective, the only time the US was ever at DEFCOM 2 (at least that we publicly know) was during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Estil

[OptOut | 9,024]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

So apparently Putin is now putting his nukes on "high alert"???  Has he gone mad?

To put that into perspective, the only time the US was ever at DEFCOM 2 (at least that we publicly know) was during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

He pulls that trigger and Russia returns to the stone-age...

[RH | 5,212]

I think this is the most extreme form of "saber rattling".  I mean, Russia/Moscow is not in threat of being invaded--I could see a dictator getting desperate and such a threat being used to get invaders to stop advancing.  Such a threat isn't good unless you're willing to really do it, and people have to believe you might activate your nuclear arsenal.   In this case, is Putin threatening... Kyiv?  Who?  So far, this has largely been a battle of Ukraine vs. Russia, so why prep the nukes?

And I assume if Russia did launch a nuke across the border, would NATO/the US start launching nukes toward Russia?  I specifically ask, and don't know, because launching nukes is just such a volatile statement, I could see treaties/agreements being in place that such responses would be expected as to deter the use of nuclear weapons.  Maybe these pacts with Russia, China, US, etc. are only one against another regarding weapon usage, but this is such a desperate move of Putin.

I also think such a move is so crazy, the people of Russia should feel like they have "nothing to lose" to try and oust Putin.  I also would imagine that potentially some of the people in the Russian military must see the insanity of their leader.  I mean... if he called a nuclear strike on Ukraine, hopefully the button pusher will have a "What am I doing here?" moment!  He might be shot by a higher official, but let's face it.  Even if you're pro-Putin, in his military, do you think it makes any sense to potentially destroy your country, for an invasion into a border country that's taking a few days longer than expected?  To put differently, how can you respect such deadly, maniacal actions of your leader, even if you liked his policies for the last 25 years.  This is too far. 

[phart010 | 1,783]

[OptOut | 9,024]

It's almost certainly meant as a threat and a warning to NATO powers to keep out of the conflict.

There would be basically zero military utility in a first-strike inside Ukraine, and it would basically guarantee a retaliatory strike from either the USA, UK or France.

The logic of nuclear weapons basically forces a full retaliation if any country is actually insane enough to use them in war. The risk of NOT retaliating, that the aggressor may turn their nukes onto you preemptively, is too great. That's kind of where the whole mutually assured destruction thing comes into play.

One big question is just how big a retaliatory strike would be, and what form it would take. If Russia nuked Kiev, for example, do you just straight up nuke Moscow next? That would basically be an ungodly act of mass slaughter, millions of innocent civilians killed, and would it even be enough to stop the carnage from continuing? We could nuke absolutely EVERY city in Russia and they'd still be able to retaliate with their subs.

The only thing we don't know is the capacity for NATO forces to deflect Nuclear missiles launched from subs and ground stations. Certainly if we knew exactly where they were coming from, there is a chance we could deflect SOME of them, so complete and utter annihilation isn't guaranteed.

But I mean if even so much as one got through, it would be bad news so... Um yeah, nukes bad.

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

14 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It's almost certainly meant as a threat and a warning to NATO powers to keep out of the conflict.

There would be basically zero military utility in a first-strike inside Ukraine, and it would basically guarantee a retaliatory strike from either the USA, UK or France.

The logic of nuclear weapons basically forces a full retaliation if any country is actually insane enough to use them in war. The risk of NOT retaliating, that the aggressor may turn their nukes onto you preemptively, is too great. That's kind of where the whole mutually assured destruction thing comes into play.

One big question is just how big a retaliatory strike would be, and what form it would take. If Russia nuked Kiev, for example, do you just straight up nuke Moscow next? That would basically be an ungodly act of mass slaughter, millions of innocent civilians killed, and would it even be enough to stop the carnage from continuing? We could nuke absolutely EVERY city in Russia and they'd still be able to retaliate with their subs.

The only thing we don't know is the capacity for NATO forces to deflect Nuclear missiles launched from subs and ground stations. Certainly if we knew exactly where they were coming from, there is a chance we could deflect SOME of them, so complete and utter annihilation isn't guaranteed.

But I mean if even so much as one got through, it would be bad news so... Um yeah, nukes bad.

If we had just taken every dollar/money ever spent on nukes, and invested in crispy high grade common Wata sports genesis games, this world would be much more peaceful. 
 

Just my wish for world peace. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by MrWunderful

[JamesRobot | 6,027]

[Hammerfestus | 4,103]

7 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

If we had just taken every dollar/money ever spent on nukes, and invested in crispy high grade common Wata sports genesis games, this world would be much more peaceful. 
 

Just my wish for world peace. 

Lol Have you ever gone into one of the graded threads?

Almost every post I read…

[phart010 | 1,783]

36 minutes ago, OptOut said:

It's almost certainly meant as a threat and a warning to NATO powers to keep out of the conflict.

There would be basically zero military utility in a first-strike inside Ukraine, and it would basically guarantee a retaliatory strike from either the USA, UK or France.

The logic of nuclear weapons basically forces a full retaliation if any country is actually insane enough to use them in war. The risk of NOT retaliating, that the aggressor may turn their nukes onto you preemptively, is too great. That's kind of where the whole mutually assured destruction thing comes into play.

One big question is just how big a retaliatory strike would be, and what form it would take. If Russia nuked Kiev, for example, do you just straight up nuke Moscow next? That would basically be an ungodly act of mass slaughter, millions of innocent civilians killed, and would it even be enough to stop the carnage from continuing? We could nuke absolutely EVERY city in Russia and they'd still be able to retaliate with their subs.

The only thing we don't know is the capacity for NATO forces to deflect Nuclear missiles launched from subs and ground stations. Certainly if we knew exactly where they were coming from, there is a chance we could deflect SOME of them, so complete and utter annihilation isn't guaranteed.

But I mean if even so much as one got through, it would be bad news so... Um yeah, nukes bad.

I think that rather than targeting all major Russian cities with a nuclear strike, the West would keep a tab on where key Russian leaders are located and just blow them up indiscriminately. Now Russia, they would probably blow up cities 

[OptOut | 9,024]

4 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I think that rather than targeting all major Russian cities with a nuclear strike, the West would keep a tab on where key Russian leaders are located and just blow them up indiscriminately. Now Russia, they would probably blow up cities 

Yeah it would probably work a lot like what happened in Japan, drop one then demand surrender, drop a second and so on until either they give up or the entire world is destroyed! 

[JamesRobot | 6,027]

20 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

Lol Have you ever gone into one of the graded threads?

Almost every post I read…

Yeah, @OptOut is def in every graded thread I've seen.

[OptOut | 9,024]

2 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

Yeah, @OptOut is def in every graded thread I've seen.

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it! Keep those investor bro bitches down to earth a little! 

[Hammerfestus | 4,103]

1 minute ago, OptOut said:

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it! Keep those investor bro bitches down to earth a little! 

Mutually assured seduction  

[Tanooki | 5,115]

I think it's perverse using a word like enjoy, but maybe fitting is better?  But last I checked those arrogant russians thought they'd roll the country over, and instead have been held back, hard, in various cities and paying a nasty price of like 10 to 1 in casualties among those fighting.  They need to be bled out financially and physically for this disgusting act.

I really wish people in the immediate would do far more to help this country out as what's going on just isn't right.  It's a sovereign country that has a right as such to determine its future.  Future alliances, future treaties, future form of government and who leads it.  Putin hates this, hates all his little former satellites going 180 rogue on mother russia.  Every few years he pokes a stick taking more and more land back by puppet government (Belarus) or stealing it by making false bullshit claims to rile up his population when it came to Georgia, then Ukraine's Crimea, and now this.  The utter gaul of this ex-kgb fuck saying that Ukraine is at fault...that they're actual nazis, that they're doing genocide on their own people(the 2 disputed areas russia has been seeding with friendlies) it's garbage.  Utter garbage.

Love or hate the ex president, but I think had he been in office Putin wouldn't have tried this shit right now.  Trump had people in these hotspots questioning things, worrying, and not sure what a bully would do it a bully waiting for the next weak link in the chain to roll over with big words and soft action.

Hopefully cutting access to SWIFT.  Taking billions in assets and cash and ceasing it outright.  Slashing out at Putins oligarchs and taking their property and ability to bank, it's all good.  Feed the Ukrainians as much aid, cash, actual hardware to use over the border in mass.  Russia needs to pay and hard, need to realize they can't just pull some nazi party 1930s the sequel shit and get away with it.  That is what they're doing, trying to gobble areas and puppet some governments just as they did in the 1930s in Germany.  And just like the 1930s the europeans are saying he wouldn't, and he did, they're acting surprised when they shouldn't, thinking it was talk and not action, hoping the next chunk of land will appease the dictator as what happened back then too.  When is enough enough?  Clearly despite the fact the russians supposedly have the 2nd best global military they're getting fairly spanked.  Shows how far their hardware, their training, their lack of actual real world activities for years has chipped away at their capabilities and that's a good thing.

[phart010 | 1,783]

13 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

I think it's perverse using a word like enjoy, but maybe fitting is better?  But last I checked those arrogant russians thought they'd roll the country over, and instead have been held back, hard, in various cities and paying a nasty price of like 10 to 1 in casualties among those fighting.  They need to be bled out financially and physically for this disgusting act.

I really wish people in the immediate would do far more to help this country out as what's going on just isn't right.  It's a sovereign country that has a right as such to determine its future.  Future alliances, future treaties, future form of government and who leads it.  Putin hates this, hates all his little former satellites going 180 rogue on mother russia.  Every few years he pokes a stick taking more and more land back by puppet government (Belarus) or stealing it by making false bullshit claims to rile up his population when it came to Georgia, then Ukraine's Crimea, and now this.  The utter gaul of this ex-kgb fuck saying that Ukraine is at fault...that they're actual nazis, that they're doing genocide on their own people(the 2 disputed areas russia has been seeding with friendlies) it's garbage.  Utter garbage.

Love or hate the ex president, but I think had he been in office Putin wouldn't have tried this shit right now.  Trump had people in these hotspots questioning things, worrying, and not sure what a bully would do it a bully waiting for the next weak link in the chain to roll over with big words and soft action.

Hopefully cutting access to SWIFT.  Taking billions in assets and cash and ceasing it outright.  Slashing out at Putins oligarchs and taking their property and ability to bank, it's all good.  Feed the Ukrainians as much aid, cash, actual hardware to use over the border in mass.  Russia needs to pay and hard, need to realize they can't just pull some nazi party 1930s the sequel shit and get away with it.  That is what they're doing, trying to gobble areas and puppet some governments just as they did in the 1930s in Germany.  And just like the 1930s the europeans are saying he wouldn't, and he did, they're acting surprised when they shouldn't, thinking it was talk and not action, hoping the next chunk of land will appease the dictator as what happened back then too.  When is enough enough?  Clearly despite the fact the russians supposedly have the 2nd best global military they're getting fairly spanked.  Shows how far their hardware, their training, their lack of actual real world activities for years has chipped away at their capabilities and that's a good thing.

I question the effectiveness of economic sanctions. As long as Europe depends on Russian energy resources, they will look for ways to exempt Russian energy resources (oil/natural gas) from the sanctions. And this is the bulk of Russian export revenues.

So if you don’t cut off Russian energy exports, you don’t squeeze the Russian economy. And Russia will not export energy resources if they cannot get paid for them.

Even if Russia is locked out of SWIFT, they already created their own payment system called SPFS that is equivalent to SWIFT in the aftermath of Crimea. They did this anticipating that they would get locked out of SWIFT in the future. I don’t know whether it’s already being used by other countries, but other countries have already setup accounts and they could use SPFS to make money transfers if they chose to.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,014]

3 hours ago, Estil said:

the only time the US was ever at DEFCOM 2 (at least that we publicly know) was during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

I mean I wasn't there but to me this feels like higher levels of tension than what I've read about. But maybe that is because comms are so much better now.

[phart010 | 1,783]

19 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I mean I wasn't there but to me this feels like higher levels of tension than what I've read about. But maybe that is because comms are so much better now.

Yea tensions back in the day were much higher because of lack of communication. There was a suspenseful anxiety. Nowadays you have much greater intelligence gathering to get a pulse of what the people on the other side are thinking 

[the_wizard_666 | 1,333]

5 hours ago, tbone3969 said:

To my surprise it seems the Ukraines are holding their ground.  I have read it is costing Putin 15 billion a day to fund this invasion.  Maybe, just maybe, Putin will back down if this drags on.  One can hope.  

Problem is, if Putin backs down, it hurts his reputation on the homefront.  He literally can't afford to lose without something he can spin as a win to the Russian people.  This is basically a war of attrition, and Russia simply has more funds, people, and resources than the Ukrainians.  Regardless of the cost, if he keeps it up long enough, and Ukraine doesn't get help from foreign armies (you know, actual troops on the ground), he'll eventually get the victory.

[avatar! | 1,940]

At any rate, we're NOT on the brink of Ukraine collapsing

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-27-22/index.html

CNN has geolocated and verified the authenticity of the videos.

The first video, taken by a resident, shows a convoy of Russian troops surrounding military vehicles, creeping along a roadway that ends near the airfield.

A Reuters journalist was at the location after the firefight and took video that showed one of the Russian military convoy vehicles abandoned and a significant amount of blood staining the snow on the ground.

Their efforts to retreat appear to have been stopped by another attack. A convoy of vehicles — the same type — is seen on fire in another video.

"And that's how we meet the b**** Russian army," someone is heard shouting in the video. "That's how it's going to be for each of them who come to our Kharkiv land."

[Estil | 1,291]

Wouldn't it be something if some of the Russian rank and file soldiers at least were tempted if not actually follow through with what Omochao from Sonic Adventure 2 would probably think of all this:

Why is Putin being such a bully?

Ukraine didn't do anything wrong!

We're leaving...

[avatar! | 1,940]

Russian climate official apologizes for Ukraine invasion

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-official-apologizes-for-ukraine-invasion-at-ipcc-meeting-201410559.html

The leader of the Russian delegation at an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) conference on Sunday apologized ..."Let me present an apology on behalf of all Russians not able to prevent this conflict," Russia's Oleg Anisimov reportedly said at the closing plenary meeting. Those who see what is happening "fail to find any justification for the attack on Ukraine," he added.

In other news, Putin announced he is looking for someone to lead the Russian delegation on climate change! Seriously, stay safe Oleg Anisimov.

[Tanooki | 5,115]

5 hours ago, phart010 said:

I question the effectiveness of economic sanctions. As long as Europe depends on Russian energy resources, they will look for ways to exempt Russian energy resources (oil/natural gas) from the sanctions. And this is the bulk of Russian export revenues.

So if you don’t cut off Russian energy exports, you don’t squeeze the Russian economy. And Russia will not export energy resources if they cannot get paid for them.

Even if Russia is locked out of SWIFT, they already created their own payment system called SPFS that is equivalent to SWIFT in the aftermath of Crimea. They did this anticipating that they would get locked out of SWIFT in the future. I don’t know whether it’s already being used by other countries, but other countries have already setup accounts and they could use SPFS to make money transfers if they chose to.

Oh trust me I agree with you entirely.  They have been playing this deranged media and chess game of theirs since they made a puppet out of Belarus, then laid waste and stole lands from Georgia years ago.  Ukraine was just next on the map and being far more formidable and far larger in size of land, infrastructure, and population they've done the chip game stealing this, moving russians in to turn that with the Crimea, then years later here again too repeating it once more.  This time it appears he wants the whole thing as a vassal puppet state or gobbled land.  I don't want to see a shooting war, but come on...it's Putin, he's not going to stop unless forced as he's playing the Hitler playbook of propaganda, government overturn, and swiping lands because they other side are being too pussy about it to stop it thinking he'll just quit.

The wizard there said it best.  Ultimately this going to come to the fall of Ukraine or NATO troops helping out on the ground, boots, arms, hardware, mechanized equipment, airpower, and a classic Iraq style no fly zone with shoot downs.  Putin's own personality and cult type base into his crap will never bend a knee on this, never back down, unless he comes out in some manner on top.  And with him LYING his ass off saying Ukraine are the nazis, are committing genocide, are lying about the truth, are picking the fight, etc...how do you back off that short of laying the capital and their government to waste?  You really don't, unless he somehow gets backed into a corner where quitting is the lesser or two shames, that or it's a ground and air war against Russia.

[avatar! | 1,940]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

...how do you back off that short of laying the capital and their government to waste?  You really don't, unless he somehow gets backed into a corner where quitting is the lesser or two shames, that or it's a ground and air war against Russia.

Yeah, I think the megalomaniac assumed it would go exactly as it did 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea and the whole world basically said "well gee, that's not nice!" 

It would honestly be fun to be a fly on the wall and see how angry Putin must be getting because NOTHING is going to his plan

Yup, exact opposite of what he wants. I'm sure he'll do a lot more sable rattling, and my guess is at the end of the day he'll withdraw and say that the whole operation was a success, and that they "crushed" the rebellion etc.

[Tanooki | 5,115]

Haha Emperor Putputine now that's funny.

 

Seriously though good, no, great on the EU for looking to do just that.  Add Ukraine to the actual EU bloc, that'll really ratchet things up because they you have mutual defense there, and I don't think Russia really wants to have to deal with the EU on the whole over that bit of land...or maybe crazy enough he would?  I think NATO should just stop the knuckle dragging cowardice and just finally approve their application for inclusion.  Every other russian border country outside of Belarus who went puppet has.  That should put a stop to it either way because then there would be treaty backed allies that would have to do more than send cash and condolences.  Look to be clear i don't want a war, but Putin started it and he needs to be stopped as he keeps taking more and more.

I've followed history most my life, some parts I find more interesting than others to keep up on, WW2 would be the most recent of history I cared much to take an interest in.  I think this image that Putin got trolled with the other day speaks volumes.  Oh and this was posted by the Ukranian gov't on one of their social media accounts and it fits.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Tanooki

[YOURTURN | 1,258]

12 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

Lol Have you ever gone into one of the graded threads?

Almost every post I read…

Are they talking about @OptOut or @FenrirZero? I mean... Sure... Both of them know how to make Japanese video game collecting look sexy. But in the end one is rumored to have a sexy ass, while the other is to be (self-)described as a sexy ass.