Decoupling the NES from the Famicom

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

So now this thread just about what he thinks of  US exclusives?
 

A troll thread that goes 8 pages can be considered successful  Lol 

thank god I only ever read the last page of posts like this, or you might have wasted my time too

[Brickman | 4,210]

17 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

So now this thread just about what he thinks of  US exclusives?
 

A troll thread that goes 8 pages can be considered successful  Lol 

thank god I only ever read the last page of posts like this, or you might have wasted my time too

Definitely a troll thread but it has been funny to read some people's wacky opinions with no factual backing.  

Source: Nintendo themselves (Corporate Information : Company History (nintendo.co.jp))

/End thread

[fcgamer | 5,015]

2 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Definitely a troll thread but it has been funny to read some people's wacky opinions with no factual backing.  

Source: Nintendo themselves (Corporate Information : Company History (nintendo.co.jp))

/End thread

We already discussed this. 

Using the same logic, Stadium Events and Tyson's Punch Out don't count.

[Brickman | 4,210]

Just now, fcgamer said:

We already discussed this. 

Using the same logic, Stadium Events and Tyson's Punch Out don't count.

? I don't see the correlation. One thing is about nerds fighting over the interwebs about what is included in a full set the other is an actual historical fact written by Nintendo in their own history books.

It's a funny thread none the less, might make the golden ganons next year

[Tanooki | 5,121]

Back on page 7 @fcgamer asked what US games if his list was right were like stuff people in general would find a stand out exclusive.  It's really not all that slim, not a huge percentage, but there are I think at least 20-30 that would be worth playing through and finding likely enjoyable.  Some of it is utterly obvious like Star Tropics titles, Darkwing Duck, Kickmaster, Lolo, Joe & Mac, Kings Quest 5, Maniac Mansion, Lone Ranger.  Some less obvious but are great like Silent Service and F-15 Strike Eagle(and F-117a Stealth uses the same engine/design), various Tengen titles, Prince of Persia, and I'm seeing a trend in both of some PC conversions.  If you had to just nuke the JP NES library and leave what was left, far far less bangers as far as AAA goes, but it still would have overshadowed what Sega was rolling out on the SMS quality wise still.  That list phart did was solid too.

I've got a share of NES stuff still JP never got, have had a good many more and used largely the library at some point.  It's just not a good argument to make, back to the FC vs NES at hardware/accessory level sure, but shitting on the game library the FC was excluded from doesn't hold up well.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

47 minutes ago, Brickman said:

? I don't see the correlation. One thing is about nerds fighting over the interwebs about what is included in a full set the other is an actual historical fact written by Nintendo in their own history books.

It's a funny thread none the less, might make the golden ganons next year

Nintendo has (had?) an official list of games on their website. Those two games were excluded from the list. Therefore if we are going to follow the philosophy that whatever Nintendo says is the end all be all, then we must also agree that Stadium Events, Tyson's Punch Out (and there might have been a couple others, Miracle Piano maybe?, the licensed Tengens?) also don't count on the basis that Nintendo doesn't count them as releases.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,333]

11 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Nintendo has (had?) an official list of games on their website. Those two games were excluded from the list. Therefore if we are going to follow the philosophy that whatever Nintendo says is the end all be all, then we must also agree that Stadium Events, Tyson's Punch Out (and there might have been a couple others, Miracle Piano maybe?, the licensed Tengens?) also don't count on the basis that Nintendo doesn't count them as releases.

Dave, there are reasons that list held some of the games off.  In Nintendo's view, SE and MTPO were superceded by the later releases.  They removed redundancies from their list.  Whether we agree with that or not, that's what they did.  With the licensed Tengen games, the licenses were revoked later, thus Nintendo would no longer recognize them as official releases.  So as far as a list of officially licensed Nintendo games go, from that perspective their list is accurate.  Regardless, their list of releases not matching reality has no bearing on the fact that they consider the two systems to be one and the same.  And why should they consider them as separate entities when they are quite literally nothing more than regional variants.  

[fcgamer | 5,015]

6 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Dave, there are reasons that list held some of the games off.  In Nintendo's view, SE and MTPO were superceded by the later releases.  They removed redundancies from their list.  Whether we agree with that or not, that's what they did.  With the licensed Tengen games, the licenses were revoked later, thus Nintendo would no longer recognize them as official releases.  So as far as a list of officially licensed Nintendo games go, from that perspective their list is accurate.  Regardless, their list of releases not matching reality has no bearing on the fact that they consider the two systems to be one and the same.  And why should they consider them as separate entities when they are quite literally nothing more than regional variants.  

Miracle Piano?

[fcgamer | 5,015]

6 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Dave, there are reasons that list held some of the games off.  In Nintendo's view, SE and MTPO were superceded by the later releases.  They removed redundancies from their list.  Whether we agree with that or not, that's what they did.  With the licensed Tengen games, the licenses were revoked later, thus Nintendo would no longer recognize them as official releases.  So as far as a list of officially licensed Nintendo games go, from that perspective their list is accurate.  Regardless, their list of releases not matching reality has no bearing on the fact that they consider the two systems to be one and the same.  And why should they consider them as separate entities when they are quite literally nothing more than regional variants.  

Also, I know why the lists are missing those titles, but the lists are not accurate - they are accurate in terms of Nintendo's revisionist history, but in terms of actuality, items are left off.

Therein lies my point: Nintendo saying something is or isn't the case isn't the end all, be all. Furthermore, we don't know who is in charge of the website and the data contained within. I also recall that the Nintendo store in NYC stated that the Famicom was only released in Japan, which is false, since it had (limited) official releases in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

At the end of the day, while brothers, the machines are different beasts. It's really weird hearing people say things as "My favorite NES game is Recca" or "Recca is a must play NES game" - I mean, if you are aware of the game in the first place, you are also likely aware that the game was released on the Famicom and not the NES itself. So such statements are just weird.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,333]

It's a regional variation.  There is zero difference outside of cosmetics between the NES and Famicom.  Some things may not be enabled by default, but they are still physically there.  The games can be played interchangeably between the consoles with a simple pass through device to accommodate the cosmetic differences.  I can take literally any Famicom game and put it in a 72 pin cartridge with zero compatibility issues, and I can do the exact same thing the other way as well.  That is because they are the same system, with libraries tailored to the region they were released in.  

/endthread

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,096]

There's definitely some more good games and a few hidden gems on that US list that weren't in phart010's list. Out of the ones that I have played so far I like the following ones:

Caveman Games: A compilation of silly but mostly fun mini games that are better and more interesting than on most other similar sports games.

Contra Force: Slower than the regular Contra games, but still an overall decent game.

Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat: Neat little racing game. The upgrade mechanics give it a little more depth and should be 4-player compatible, iirc.

Fun House: Pretty unique game show kind of game where you run against time to shoot certain objects. Has a lot of bang for your bucks as well.

James Bond Jr.: Fun action platformer with big, sprawling levels and awesome music. Only drawback is that you have to play it twice to get the good ending.

Jaws: Simple and short, but still decently entertaining. Could have needed a bit more content, but I still found it fairly fun.

Joe & Mac: It's way too difficult for my liking, but the gameplay itself is good and fun.

Krazy Kreatures: Fun and frantic action puzzle game. Would never have imagined this to be actually good, but it's all about the gameplay.

Pirates!: One of the rare true open world games on the NES. The individual gameplay elements might not be that well fleshed out like in most multi-genre games, but it's still a unique and deep experience on the NES. Getting 100 points though is really hard.

Rad Racer II: Maybe not as good as the first game, but still a fun and fast-paced racer.

Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves: Solid Action RPG.

Sky Shark: Fun shooting game with lots of fast action and a good challenge. I come back to this one regularly.

Super Cars: Overlooked racing game that is a bit like Indy Heat, but more zoomed in and with bigger racing tracks. You can also buy upgrades and have to repair your car from the money that you win. Deserves a bit more love.

Thundercade: How has nobody mentioned this one yet? Another decent shooting game, but also quite difficult.

Widget: An okay-ish Mega Man clone.

 

Now on to the serious (hidden) gem category:

Mission: Impossible: This game is made by Ultra, i.e. Konami. So I don't understand why this one doesn't get more love when it's everything that the NES Metal Gear games wished they could be! It cut down a lot of the annoying aspects and provides a fun and challenging stealth action game. You have three different characters with their unique weapons and skills and can change between them whenever you want, similar to Bucky 'o Hare and people love that game, right? On top of that the levels are designed in such a way, that every character's weapons and skills come are actually useful. If I ever get around to starting a physical NES collection this would be one of the first carts to buy. Truly a great game! Its bad reputation probably stems from this being a game based on a license.

Silkworm: Great shooting game with fast-paced action and even a co-op mode! You can also either play as an airship or a buggy. Both have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Only downside to this game is the high challenge in the later stages, which is why I've never beaten it yet. But it's still a good time.

Swords & Serpents: Ever wanted to play a dungeon RPG, but not in the mood for long, drawn-out battles during every single encounter? Well, then this is the game for you! This game is not just relatively fast-paced for a turn-based RPG, but it's also been optimized for the controls on a console and it's working damn fine. But despite the simplicity it's still not a walk in the park. The levels are big and elaborate, so you want to draw your own map. There is even a mini map in the game, but it gets erased every few floors. The game also gives you reason to backtrack to certain areas after collecting certain keys or learning specific spells. Other than that, you can set up your party by choosing four characters out of three classes. It might not seem all that much, but it still adds a bit of replay value. Watch out though: one magician is absolutely necessary to beat this game! Anyway, I've always enjoyed my time with this game and prefer it over other similar stuff like the Wizardry and Ultima game since it's more satisfying to play and not such a grueling, sadistic slog like the Wizardry dungeons which already start off way too hard and confusing.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Gaia Gensouki

[Brickman | 4,210]

52 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Nintendo has (had?) an official list of games on their website. Those two games were excluded from the list. Therefore if we are going to follow the philosophy that whatever Nintendo says is the end all be all, then we must also agree that Stadium Events, Tyson's Punch Out (and there might have been a couple others, Miracle Piano maybe?, the licensed Tengens?) also don't count on the basis that Nintendo doesn't count them as releases.

the_wizard_666 provided the reason for this. Collectors can have a different views and argue on forums about it but in Nintendo's view it is correct.

If you can provide actual evidence and facts from Nintendo that the Famicom and NES are different, I'll concede. I know the internet loves to live in the opinions = facts bubble but in the real world the Famicom and NES are the same thing. 

I appreciate the thread though, it has livened up the place and got us all talking

Also, I personally have never heard anyone refer to Recca (or any Famicom exclusive game) as a NES game, I'd say that person was definitely in the minority.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

2 minutes ago, Brickman said:

the_wizard_666 provided the reason for this. Collectors can have a different views and argue on forums about it but in Nintendo's view it is correct.

If you noticed my last post, I mentioned that it's revisionist history.

Governments that want to paint revisionist versions of history that paint them in a better light are also correct...

[Brickman | 4,210]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

If you noticed my last post, I mentioned that it's revisionist history.

Governments that want to paint revisionist versions of history that paint them in a better light are also correct...

lol ok...

[fcgamer | 5,015]

@Brickman Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, Nintendo also states that the Famicom was only released in Japan, in their shop in NYC. What's the explanation for that?

 

[fcgamer | 5,015]

Also anyone have the reason as to why Miracle Piano was off the list?

[phart010 | 1,783]

2 hours ago, Brickman said:

Definitely a troll thread but it has been funny to read some people's wacky opinions with no factual backing.  

Source: Nintendo themselves (Corporate Information : Company History (nintendo.co.jp))

/End thread

Although in this case, it would be fair to take their statement for what it is, just because they say something don’t mean it’s true. Nintendo, like all big companies, will say whatever is most convenient for them when they say it. 

For example:

Games like Night Trap will "never be on a Nintendo system." 

“We haven't got any plans at the moment - nothing I know of" when pressed on the question of a DS redesign (This statement was made 2 days before the DS Lite was announced)

 

“What I want to do, I think our first job right now is to make sure that the customers, those 10 million customers who have a Wii U at home have software to play. And we need to make sure that they are satisfied with their purchase and continue to enjoy playing on this platform. So we can't just abandon them and say, 'Hey, it's time to move on to the next thing.”

 

 “We can confirm that we are no longer manufacturing the Nintendo Classic Mini: Nintendo Entertainment System”

“Nintendo has no plans to make any smartphone games for Android or Apple devices. I encourage you to take a look at the Nintendo 3DS which has many portable games.”

 

“Nintendo is not interested in making a large amount of revenue from a single smartphone game,” “The company is concerned it might be criticized for being greedy in smartphone games.”

 

Metroid Prime 4 will be coming Winter 2018

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by phart010

[fcgamer | 5,015]

4 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Although in this case, it would be fair to take their statement for what it is, just because they say something don’t mean it’s true. Nintendo, like all big companies, will say whatever is most convenient for them when they say it. 

For example:

Games like Snatcher will "never be on a Nintendo system." 

“We haven't got any plans at the moment - nothing I know of" when pressed on the question of a DS redesign (This statement was made 2 days before the DS Lite was announced)

 

“What I want to do, I think our first job right now is to make sure that the customers, those 10 million customers who have a Wii U at home have software to play. And we need to make sure that they are satisfied with their purchase and continue to enjoy playing on this platform. So we can' just abandon them and say, 'Hey, it's time to move on to the next thing.”

 

 “We can confirm that we are no longer manufacturing the Nintendo Classic Mini: Nintendo Entertainment System”

“Nintendo has no plans to make any smartphone games for Android or Apple devices. I encourage you to take a look at the Nintendo 3DS which has many portable games.”

 

“Nintendo is not interested in making a large amount of revenue from a single smartphone game,” “The company is concerned it might be criticized for being greedy in smartphone games.”

 

Metroid Prime 4 will be coming Winter 2018

 

 

 

Well here's another fun one, it must be true since @Brickman subscribes to Nintendo's statement.

I could have sworn there was something released between the SNES and the N64. I guess I was dreaming in black and red!!!

[Brickman | 4,210]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

@Brickman Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, Nintendo also states that the Famicom was only released in Japan, in their shop in NYC. What's the explanation for that?

 

Do you have a link to the statement? Possibly the don't recognise those regions are official releases and consider them bootleg systems?

Just now, phart010 said:

Although in this case, it would be fair to take their statement for what it is, just because they say something don’t mean it’s true. Nintendo, like all big companies, will say whatever is most convenient for them when they say it. 

For example:

Games like Snatcher will "never be on a Nintendo system." 

“We haven't got any plans at the moment - nothing I know of" when pressed on the question of a DS redesign (This statement was made 2 days before the DS Lite was announced)

 

“What I want to do, I think our first job right now is to make sure that the customers, those 10 million customers who have a Wii U at home have software to play. And we need to make sure that they are satisfied with their purchase and continue to enjoy playing on this platform. So we can' just abandon them and say, 'Hey, it's time to move on to the next thing.”

 

 “We can confirm that we are no longer manufacturing the Nintendo Classic Mini: Nintendo Entertainment System”

“Nintendo has no plans to make any smartphone games for Android or Apple devices. I encourage you to take a look at the Nintendo 3DS which has many portable games.”

 

“Nintendo is not interested in making a large amount of revenue from a single smartphone game,” “The company is concerned it might be criticized for being greedy in smartphone games.”

 

Metroid Prime 4 will be coming Winter 2018

 

 

 

lol. PR releases aren't even in the same category as published history. People on the internet make me laugh sometimes.

[phart010 | 1,783]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Well here's another fun one, it must be true since @Brickman subscribes to Nintendo's statement.

I could have sworn there was something released between the SNES and the N64. I guess I was dreaming in black and red!!!

Edited my post (which you quoted)
Somehow I originally said Snatcher instead of Night Trap

[fcgamer | 5,015]

1 minute ago, Brickman said:

Do you have a link to the statement? Possibly the don't recognise those regions are official releases and consider them bootleg systems

It was on the signage in their official shop in New York City. 

Considering they've always made (and distributed) games yo those regions, even now, I personally think it was more of an oversight.

[phart010 | 1,783]

2 minutes ago, Brickman said:

Do you have a link to the statement? Possibly the don't recognise those regions are official releases and consider them bootleg systems?

lol. PR releases aren't even in the same category as published history. People on the internet make me laugh sometimes.

I disagree. When you are an executive, every word that comes out of your mouth becomes published as part of the public record. This is why executives so often make no comment at all when they have to answer a challenging question 

[Brickman | 4,210]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I disagree. When you are an executive, every word that comes out of your mouth becomes published as part of the public record. This is why executives so often make no comment at all when they have to answer a challenging question 

I meant that PR statements like the ones you posted can't be taken as 100% facts because the business is always changing, so deadlines aren't always met for various reasons. 

[fcgamer | 5,015]

So from this whole discussion the conclusion, as given by Nintendo, is as follows: The Famicom and NES are the same, and the Virtual Boy is a lie. Is that correct? Trying to make sure I understand things correctly.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,120]

37 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Also anyone have the reason as to why Miracle Piano was off the list?

Possibly seen as an application or learning tool rather than a "game."