Web3 Games

[Code Monkey | 2,128]

4 minutes ago, Gloves said:

It's a digital ticket, how exactly are you "handing" it to him? 

The venue has to validate the ticket somehow so it's a barcode or a QR code or some other sort of code that you can print out on paper. I've never been to a venue that had a ticket I couldn't print out and most of them give you the option.

 

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Beyond that, you realize how anti-consumer that is anyway, right? If I buy something, I want to be able to hand it to my brother at no cost to either of us. 

Fuck anyone who breaks our ability to do so. 

They already do this. Ticketmaster and Stubhub forbid ticket resales in their terms of service (last time I checked) so you're already not allowed. If you decide to do this anyway (outside their platform), you're breaking the law. The only thing they're changing is enforcement.

[Gloves | 12,243]

2 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

They already do this. Ticketmaster and Stubhub forbid ticket resales in their terms of service (last time I checked) so you're already not allowed. If you decide to do this anyway (outside their platform), you're breaking the law. The only thing they're changing is enforcement.

You can resell ticket master tickets on their platform via barcode. 

[Khromak | 836]

If the "problem" that's being solved by blockchain in this case is:

If someone sells a physical ticket to another person then the original seller doesn't get any money from that

Then I'm not sure that's a problem that really needs to be solved, but if it were going to be solved, I sure wouldn't want it to be solved by making every transfer of tickets cost a fee (as blockchain transactions do) to solve this problem. You'd also be adding an additional charge for the profit of the company taking a cut of your sale.

What if you want to transfer the ticket to your husband's phone instead? That's a charge now? What if you want to give it to your friend for free? Upcharge!

Removing the ability to back out any transaction regardless of the authenticity of it is EXTREMELY bad policy for money and banking. This is the polar opposite of what we should be doing and...if a bank employee decided to take all your money then you'd be really happy that we have the banking system we do instead of a blockchain one.

[Floating Platforms | 796]

17 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

The venue has to validate the ticket somehow so it's a barcode or a QR code or some other sort of code that you can print out on paper. I've never been to a venue that had a ticket I couldn't print out and most of them give you the option.

Doesn't this invalidate your point? If you can print out the code and give it to the venue, you can print the code and sell that printout to someone else without the original owner seeing a dime - again making the NFT utility worthless. No venue is checking IDs to make sure you're the one who last held ownership before pretending to pat you down and let you through the door.

[Code Monkey | 2,128]

5 minutes ago, Floating Platforms said:

Doesn't this invalidate your point? If you can print out the code and give it to the venue, you can print the code and sell that printout to someone else without the original owner seeing a dime - again making the NFT utility worthless. No venue is checking IDs to make sure you're the one who last held ownership before pretending to pat you down and let you through the door.

No, there are no codes specific to your ticket when it's tied to an NFT, there's only your wallet. The venue scans your wallet and they validate whether a ticket to that venue is owned by that wallet. There is no way to print out your wallet and you can't give it to anyone else without giving them access to your entire wallet.

There are many misconceptions here about how web3 works because everyone thinks it's just pictures of monkeys without understanding the beauty of the underlying architecture. I don't want to take up too much of this thread but if anyone has blockchain specific technical questions, you can ask me or start a new thread.

[Gloves | 12,243]

5 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

No, there are no codes specific to your ticket when it's tied to an NFT, there's only your wallet. The venue scans your wallet and they validate whether a ticket to that venue is owned by that wallet. There is no way to print out your wallet and you can't give it to anyone else without giving them access to your entire wallet.

This can be done with a normal QR code which would show the venue whether your account is holding the ticket in question. This not not Blockchain-exclusive technology, this is incredibly simple user data. You're literally just describing an account.

 

5 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

There are many misconceptions here about how web3 works because everyone thinks it's just pictures of monkeys without understanding the beauty of the underlying architecture. I don't want to take up too much of this thread but if anyone has blockchain specific technical questions, you can ask me or start a new thread.

You're making sweeping assumptions about the knowledge of people and you're entirely incorrect with those assumptions.

[Floating Platforms | 796]

10 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

No, there are no codes specific to your ticket when it's tied to an NFT, there's only your wallet. The venue scans your wallet and they validate whether a ticket to that venue is owned by that wallet. There is no way to print out your wallet and you can't give it to anyone else without giving them access to your entire wallet.

Okay, the wallet is tied to the ticket. But you said it yourself that every venue will accept a code printed out on paper. I own the wallet and ticket. I print my ticket, but oops I can't go now due to a family emergency and sell that already printed piece of paper to my neighbor who then goes to the show. It gets scanned. The venue will have no way to know that my neighbor doesn't actually own the wallet. They also will not care and will not hold up the line of 1000s of people to make sure that they can login on their phone and verify ownership of that printed paper.  That paper transaction that I made now has bypassed the company's NFT transaction fee.

 

15 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

There are many misconceptions here about how web3 works because everyone thinks it's just pictures of monkeys without understanding the beauty of the underlying architecture

No, it's not that. It simply seems that NFTs are not actually solving any problems other than "how can tech people find a new get rich scheme." This example you provided of a problem that's being fixed isn't a problem for consumers at all. People aren't complaining about not being able to go to concerts because the ticket sellers can't collect even more fees. People complain because people buy up huge buckets of tickets and then scalp them at absurd prices. NFTs is not going to solve this problem - or if it can, no one is actually trying to use it that way.

Hey, but at least a boatload of electricity is being used and millions of dollars are being spent chasing these things so that a corporation can maybe make a few extra dollars or some dude out of college can organize a rug pull.

[Mega Tank | 1,092]

2 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

If a rogue bank employee wanted to log into the bank's database and transfer all money our of your account and into theirs, they (at least someone) has the ability to do so. Whether or not you would eventually get your money back is irrelevant to the fact this is possible.

There isn't a person on Earth that has the ability to modify the blockchain, that's the inherent security of the technology behind NFT. Once you own a token, it can never be taken away from you (besides someone hacking your password).

We're talking about the purchase of a pair of New Balance shoes. What in the world does an NFT do to authenticate the item I am buying is real?

Are there so many legitimate stores selling bootleg shoes that require every pair of shoes to be authenticated? I buy comfortable yet affordable shoes. Are you telling me before I buy a pair of New Balance shoes they need to show proof the product is authentic when I go buy them at Famous Footwear, Dick's Sporting Goods, Zappos or any other retailer?

Also, what good is it if I have the NFT to prove my $50 pair of New Balance are authentic, what's the point? When I donate them to a Goodwill thrift store, do I pass the NFT along to the next buyer?

 

Edited August 5 by Mega Tank

[Gloves | 12,243]

I still hate how hypesters call it "web3". It's not the next web, it's not a new version or an update to the web, it's not even web-related at all. People can't even agree on what "Web3" even means and the fact that it infects my day-to-day life/job is a bit infuriating. It's hype and grifting.

Take this graphic for example:

 

Read, write, trust, verifiable.

No ownership of content? Anyone can contribute? Bro anyone can contribute today what does that even mean? Also, oh good - what, I don't own my own content anymore? 

Shit's been using ML and AI for years, we've just decided that because ChatGPT exists and is mainstream that that is what AI is now. I won't even get into this it's not even intelligent.

And content can be accessed by multiple applications? What, you mean like an API? Like we've had for like, over 2 decades? Salesforce released their API in the year 2000. Have these people never heard of a headless CMS? 

"Web3" my ass.

[Scrobins | 1,804]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

I don't want to take up too much of this thread

[Sumez | 3,152]

I can't believe I missed out on all this. This thread is hilarious

[a3quit4s | 4,329]

8 hours ago, Gloves said:

Take this graphic for example:

 

This straight up looks stolen from some investorbros PowerPoint presentation to his dad to borrow $5k to invest

[Khromak | 836]

I think there's something unique on offer by blockchain (an independent, unmodifiable, public system of record).

My problem with it is I haven't heard of any practical reason you would need to use this kind of system.

I've heard lots of theoretical reasons you'd want to use this kind of system and in my experience there are always GLARING problems with it which heavily outweigh the pros.

[RH | 5,198]

I don't agree with your statement @Gloves that cryptocurrency as currency is a bad idea. That said, for the past near decade, the pivot that blockchain-tech has made from it's roots has 100% strayed from it's useful viability.

None of this is necessary, for any of these use cases. People took the idea of a distributed, verifiable, "democratic" ledger and shoe-horned the tech in everything they could think of because bitcoin went from being literally worthless to billions of dollars in "free money" in less that 10 years of it's inception. Of course people are going to try and invent useful ways to exploit this type of technology and so long as silly, ignorant investors keep drinking the Kool-Aid and throwing money at it, it's just going to keep ticking along.

[RH | 5,198]

Why am I responding to this here, don't we already have a crypto thread to argue these points?

[Gloves | 12,243]

31 minutes ago, RH said:

I don't agree with your statement @Gloves that cryptocurrency as currency is a bad idea. That said, for the past near decade, the pivot that blockchain-tech has made from it's roots has 100% strayed from it's useful viability.

Let me provide clarity by saying I mean "as it exists now". The idea was technically sound, the adoption was nil, and then shifted massively.

No matter how much techies might like to think they can, you will not remove the human element from viability, and we humans will almost always take anything monetary and break it to our whims. 

[Gloves | 12,243]

32 minutes ago, RH said:

Why am I responding to this here, don't we already have a crypto thread to argue these points?

Somehow the mention of i crypto et Al always turns that thread into the new defacto convo thread lol

 

[Mega Tank | 1,092]

45 minutes ago, RH said:

Why am I responding to this here, don't we already have a crypto thread to argue these points?

Some of us are waiting for @Code Monkeyto respond.

I might be buying some New Balance shoes in the next couple of days and I want that NFT. I don't want to be ripped off. Sales peoole probably just harvesting those unclaimed NFT's.

[Hammerfestus | 4,100]

2 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

Some of us are waiting for @Code Monkeyto respond.

I might be buying some New Balance shoes in the next couple of days and I want that NFT. I don't want to be ripped off. Sales peoole probably just harvesting those unclaimed NFT's.

I’m wondering what sort of coveted celebrity endorsed models they have.  I’m thinking like Norm Abram?

 

[RH | 5,198]

19 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said:

I’m wondering what sort of coveted celebrity endorsed models they have.  I’m thinking like Norm Abram?

 

I've never been a New Balance guy, but this could get me to turn my head and pay attention! Now, if they ever have a Richard Karn NFT, I'll probably have to go and raid my local Payless!

[Hammerfestus | 4,100]

11 minutes ago, RH said:

I've never been a New Balance guy, but this could get me to turn my head and pay attention! Now, if they ever have a Richard Karn NFT, I'll probably have to go and raid my local Payless!

[Scrobins | 1,804]

Let’s have some more Star Keeper NFTs that are given away, thus missing the point

[Code Monkey | 2,128]

23 hours ago, Gloves said:

This can be done with a normal QR code which would show the venue whether your account is holding the ticket in question. This not not Blockchain-exclusive technology, this is incredibly simple user data. You're literally just describing an account.

 

You're making sweeping assumptions about the knowledge of people and you're entirely incorrect with those assumptions.

Explain to me how your account can stop someone from selling the ticket without paying a premium to the ticket issuer, it can't. You're focusing on duplicating what blockchain ALLOWS but not focusing at all on what it DISALLOWS. That's the most important part and cannot be duplicated with existing technology. Is it useful to disallow this? I never claimed that, I'm simply saying it gives the ability.

And I'm not talking about limiting the sales to your platform because in your scenario, I could sell it to a neightbour but with my scenario I cannot.

Another thing the blockchain secures against is rogue employees. In your scenario an employee could log in and take away your ticket. With the blockchain they cannot, it is impossible.

I'm not saying this is useful, I'm saying it's possible.

 

22 hours ago, Floating Platforms said:

Okay, the wallet is tied to the ticket. But you said it yourself that every venue will accept a code printed out on paper. I own the wallet and ticket. I print my ticket, but oops I can't go now due to a family emergency and sell that already printed piece of paper to my neighbor who then goes to the show. It gets scanned. The venue will have no way to know that my neighbor doesn't actually own the wallet. They also will not care and will not hold up the line of 1000s of people to make sure that they can login on their phone and verify ownership of that printed paper.  That paper transaction that I made now has bypassed the company's NFT transaction fee.

 

No, it's not that. It simply seems that NFTs are not actually solving any problems other than "how can tech people find a new get rich scheme." This example you provided of a problem that's being fixed isn't a problem for consumers at all. People aren't complaining about not being able to go to concerts because the ticket sellers can't collect even more fees. People complain because people buy up huge buckets of tickets and then scalp them at absurd prices. NFTs is not going to solve this problem - or if it can, no one is actually trying to use it that way.

Hey, but at least a boatload of electricity is being used and millions of dollars are being spent chasing these things so that a corporation can maybe make a few extra dollars or some dude out of college can organize a rug pull.

No, my explanation of the venue scanning a ticket is in reference to conventional technologies, not blockchain. With blockchain, they scan your wallet because there is absolutely no scan tied to the ticket itself. A code is generated by your wallet which prevents it from being passed to someone else and that code is scanned by the venue to check if the wallet owns a ticket to that venue. It cannot be printed, it cannot be sold except from wallet to wallet.

You may not see any use to this technology but people make millions off the most obscure advances in technology. Someone discovered a way to compress an image into a smaller size to transfer across the internet and now that person is a billionaire because it's used by every ISP known to man. The most random pieces of technology all have uses in the world.

Electricity use is only for older "proof of work" technologies which aren't being used with any new blockchains. This is another misconception, new blockchains are much more efficient.

 

22 hours ago, Mega Tank said:

We're talking about the purchase of a pair of New Balance shoes. What in the world does an NFT do to authenticate the item I am buying is real?

Are there so many legitimate stores selling bootleg shoes that require every pair of shoes to be authenticated? I buy comfortable yet affordable shoes. Are you telling me before I buy a pair of New Balance shoes they need to show proof the product is authentic when I go buy them at Famous Footwear, Dick's Sporting Goods, Zappos or any other retailer?

Also, what good is it if I have the NFT to prove my $50 pair of New Balance are authentic, what's the point? When I donate them to a Goodwill thrift store, do I pass the NFT along to the next buyer?

 

I was asked to provide a scenario where it's being used, I have no interest in the details of why. Please direct your concerns to New Balance.

 

22 hours ago, Gloves said:

I still hate how hypesters call it "web3". It's not the next web, it's not a new version or an update to the web, it's not even web-related at all. People can't even agree on what "Web3" even means and the fact that it infects my day-to-day life/job is a bit infuriating. It's hype and grifting.

Take this graphic for example:

 

Read, write, trust, verifiable.

No ownership of content? Anyone can contribute? Bro anyone can contribute today what does that even mean? Also, oh good - what, I don't own my own content anymore? 

Shit's been using ML and AI for years, we've just decided that because ChatGPT exists and is mainstream that that is what AI is now. I won't even get into this it's not even intelligent.

And content can be accessed by multiple applications? What, you mean like an API? Like we've had for like, over 2 decades? Salesforce released their API in the year 2000. Have these people never heard of a headless CMS? 

"Web3" my ass.

The original "web" was a bunch of universities connected together. This initial web of networks grew in size but the Americas were using one technology and European countries were using a different technology to communicate. Two random guys got together and developed TCP/IP to communicate between both webs of networks, presto......web2. Now people have developed a decentralized platform which can host the internet without any dedicated servers, we call it web3.

How amazing would it be to host the world's internet across every cellular phone and IoT device that exists? You make a phone call and instead of connecting to a tower, it connects phone to phone to phone all the way to the recipient. That sort of decentralized platform is incredibly useful (and cool).

Dude, an API isn't even in the same class as a decentralized network. Any and all of your email can be accessed by a rogue employee, does that concern you? What if your email could be hosted on a decentralized network which nobody can modify / delete? The idea of this is very appealing to me.

 

12 hours ago, Khromak said:

I think there's something unique on offer by blockchain (an independent, unmodifiable, public system of record).

My problem with it is I haven't heard of any practical reason you would need to use this kind of system.

I've heard lots of theoretical reasons you'd want to use this kind of system and in my experience there are always GLARING problems with it which heavily outweigh the pros.

You have to develop the technology first, use cases will come later. Carl Gauss developed mathematical functions that wouldn't find a use until about 100 years after his death.

 

9 hours ago, RH said:

Why am I responding to this here, don't we already have a crypto thread to argue these points?

I can switch to there if people want.

 

Blockchain and web3 is an incredibly useful technology and if we can eventually host the entire internet on an interconnected and decentralized network, that would be very helpful. I don't want to rely on Bell (Verizon?) to keep their towers operating, I'd rather just have my information pass through the thousands of interconnected devices around me to daisy chain their way to the recipient (assuming some way to fill in the large gaps).

Should we all adopt this new technology immediately? Hell no, it needs to mature but the idea is that it will eventually become something useful due to its ability to accomplish what current technology cannot. How it will mature and into what, I do not know.

[Khromak | 836]

8 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Explain to me how your account can stop someone from selling the ticket without paying a premium to the ticket issuer, it can't. You're focusing on duplicating what blockchain ALLOWS but not focusing at all on what it DISALLOWS. That's the most important part and cannot be duplicated with existing technology.

This is all true for a digital ticket on an account. You can't sell a ticket on a ticketmaster account without paying a premium to the ticket issuer.

Once you make it a physical ticket with a thing that needs to be scanned, you can just hand the ticket with that thing to your neighbor and they can scan it. This is the exact same, blockchain or no.

8 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Another thing the blockchain secures against is rogue employees. In your scenario an employee could log in and take away your ticket. With the blockchain they cannot, it is impossible.

This has never happened in the history of tickets, so again...solution in search of a problem, IMO. Bank employees don't randomly decide to wipe out people's accounts and ticketing agents don't randomly decide to steal tickets. If they did, another employee of the company could see that and give the customer the ticket/money back. You can't do this with a wallet...the transaction is completely irreversible, so you've just made the problem significantly worse, just shifted the vector of attack to a SIGNIFICANTLY more common one.

9 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

It cannot be printed, it cannot be sold except from wallet to wallet.

Mentioned above but...that's just a digital ticket. If it can't be printed then you can just restrict customers from transferring with a website and account system. I guess you could argue that customers can "self-service" their private sales by using blockchain to sell to each other independently but I think there is extremely little appetite for a system of selling tickets peer-to-peer but without using a website.

9 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

You make a phone call and instead of connecting to a tower, it connects phone to phone to phone all the way to the recipient. That sort of decentralized platform is incredibly useful (and cool).

If it were incredibly useful and could save the world having to use towers, it would've been adopted by now. The problem is that this shit is incredibly resource-intensive and offers very little, if any, advantage over existing technology. Why is blockchain necessary to use other devices to transfer messages?

9 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Any and all of your email can be accessed by a rogue employee, does that concern you? What if your email could be hosted on a decentralized network which nobody can modify / delete? The idea of this is very appealing to me.

"Nobody can modify / delete" isn't the positive people think it is. What if you have an embarrassing situation? What if someone got access to your account and then sent emails saying godawful things?

9 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I don't want to rely on Bell (Verizon?) to keep their towers operating, I'd rather just have my information pass through the thousands of interconnected devices around me to daisy chain their way to the recipient (assuming some way to fill in the large gaps).

Why is blockchain necessary for this? Peer-to-peer connection is possible, see: Apple Airtags. How did they manage to pull this off without the blockchain?

Even if you can manage to connect from cell phone to cell phone, the cell phones still need to connect to the infrastructure of the internet (to get across the ocean) so...you're always going to be reliant on some company or government to keep infrastructure in place. Also cell phones have tiny antenna, they would be really bad when attempting to act as broadcasters, even in densely populated areas. How about if you're in the middle of the bush? You can't do anything because there's nobody nearby to pass your message along?

IDK, really seems like a lot of problems that don't exist and solutions that don't require blockchain to me, TBH.

[Gloves | 12,243]

10 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Explain to me how your account can stop someone from selling the ticket without paying a premium to the ticket issuer, it can't.

It's really hard to not engage your incredibly flawed logic, especially when it's literally all flawed. So I'll just pick the first sentence and stop there. 

I build a ticket system. Users have accounts. You buy a ticket on the system, it's tied to your account. I build a function in the system where you can sell your ticket to another user on the system, and doing so will come with a flat fee (I could make it a percent if I wanted to). Tickets are represented as constantly updating digital barcodes, same tech as 2FA - they're only valid for 15 seconds before they refresh to a new barcode. You log into your account on your phone and the venue scans the barcode to validate. 

Explain to ME how you plan to sell a ticket on my system and bypass the built-in protections to avoid the fee.