DarkKobold | 228 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 https://www.ebay.com/itm/315437851112 This is legend of Hero Tonma Graded as CIB - using the box as the grade... Except the box is 110% fake, and not even close to an original. This is how an original CIB Tonma should look: https://www.ebay.com/itm/176397104366 It never came with a CD case. That's likely a Sparky Label on the case. I have a set, it makes it nicer for the shelf, but it's about as insanely inauthentic as it comes. This seems worse than the PCE Works Rondo scandal. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRbjlk-HAgc) This seems like a basic, basic piece of knowledge that even a new TG16 collector could tell you. These are supposed to be the "experts" in the field, but they don't even have the most basic knowledge about TG-16 packaging. Pathetic. 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xelement5x | 112 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Lol I can't believe these guys call themselves experts. Wonder if they will try and buy it out and bury it again like they did with the PCE Works Rondo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultGen | 5,723 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyree_Cooper | 858 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 honest expert mistake as usual 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 3,153 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 I had no idea there was even a western release of that game. My first reaction was "what, my copy looks like that", but obviously it doesn't have the big black turbo logo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 51 minutes ago, Sumez said: I had no idea there was even a western release of that game. My first reaction was "what, my copy looks like that", but obviously it doesn't have the big black turbo logo. Yeah I was thinking the same exact thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 5 hours ago, DarkKobold said: These are supposed to be the "experts" in the field, but they don't even have the most basic knowledge about TG-16 packaging. Pathetic. Anyone with enough money and press can be an expert, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumez | 3,153 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, fcgamer said: Yeah I was thinking the same exact thing. It's honestly incredible that they kept the exact same box art for the overseas release, that's gotta be extremely uncommon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
final fight cd | 227 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 This will only strengthen the hate for those who hate grading games. those who like grading will either ignore it or will say, “ehh, mistakes happen” and will keeping sending games in. so the good and bad cancel each other out and WATA remains neutral. makes me wonder: what would a grading company have to do to for clients to completely loose faith. Grading fake games obviously isn’t one of them. Maybe a sex scandal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonebone | 1,329 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 They cleaned house long ago, it's just the PSA machine now. That's a really bad mistake but I wouldn't say they are any more experts than any of the other grading companies at this point. They're all about equal in terms of having some more experience that others in certain areas or being very average in their experience otherwise. No dedicated TG collector would get duped by this and TG isn't really that speculative either. It's basically just the collectors in that segment instead of investors and I hope the buyer isn't duped. A Tonma card / manual is still what, maybe $750ish? As long as the price is under that then it didn't really screw anyone even though it's a blatant miss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
final fight cd | 227 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, jonebone said: A Tonma card / manual is still what, maybe $750ish? As long as the price is under that then it didn't really screw anyone even though it's a blatant miss. Didn’t screw anyone? What about the dude that entrusted WATA and gave them his hard earned money for a sham authentication? I’d say he got screwed big time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khromak | 837 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Also anyone who buys a $750 CIB not realizing it's really a $400 CI, or whatever. They did the opposite of their job, IDK...humans are fallible but there need to be checks in place to catch this stuff, like multiple people fact-checking the basics. I'm no expert but I could've googled the cover and realized this was inauthentic and I don't own a single TG-16 hucard. This is like...basic 5 minutes of research level of stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKobold | 228 Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, jonebone said: They cleaned house long ago, it's just the PSA machine now. That's a really bad mistake but I wouldn't say they are any more experts than any of the other grading companies at this point. They're all about equal in terms of having some more experience that others in certain areas or being very average in their experience otherwise. No dedicated TG collector would get duped by this and TG isn't really that speculative either. It's basically just the collectors in that segment instead of investors and I hope the buyer isn't duped. This doesn't even take a dedicated TG collector - that's what kills me. I could at least understand the mistake where they confused a PCEWorks repro. Tobias went to great lengths to make the fake. This, on the other hand, is something you learn Day #1 of TG16 collecting. You buy a bunch of Sparky labels in hope that you're able to complete getting all the 23ish games that came tray-only. They had to literally not know the first thing about TG-16 collecting, but still felt confident in grading this. In fact, the grade on the outside of the case is 8.0. Which is what they graded the "box" AKA the fakest thing about this. Bafflingly stupid. I highly doubt this changes anyone's mind about WATA, but it surprises me how blatantly this shows a complete lack of actual expertise. Any actual basic new TG16 collector could have explained this to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulag Joe | 590 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Looks real to me. I trust the pros. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT | 171 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 If you don't like the grade on your collectable, just break the slab and grade it again! Back on topic. Any time these mistakes pop up, I wonder what other mistakes have been made. But yes there can be human error in the process. Either you are ok with that or not. I will pass on grading, especially with WATA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKobold | 228 Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 What gets me is that this is straight up negligence. Anyone who has been in the TG16 collecting hobby for longer than a week knows that they switched from CD-style cases to trays. This isn't some obscure factoid about collecting TG16, it's one of the most basic facts of late-release TG16 games. However, they felt sufficient to declare themselves "experts" worthy of grading this, without having a god damn clue about the hobby at all. Yes, there's been other mistakes, but this is just beyond embarrassing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankos | 542 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 You may expect better, but that goes against their namesake Be unpredictable: like WATA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 On 6/16/2024 at 3:22 AM, DarkKobold said: What gets me is that this is straight up negligence. Anyone who has been in the TG16 collecting hobby for longer than a week knows that they switched from CD-style cases to trays. This isn't some obscure factoid about collecting TG16, it's one of the most basic facts of late-release TG16 games. However, they felt sufficient to declare themselves "experts" worthy of grading this, without having a god damn clue about the hobby at all. Yes, there's been other mistakes, but this is just beyond embarrassing. As a collector I agree with you 100%, but sadly these sorts of commercial asshats (graders, resellers, etc) don't know their ass from their elbow, and are all self -proclaimed experts too. This is something I have a huge issue with, namely someone with money (wata) or power (i.e. a school and by extension a shithead seeking a PhD or whatever) becoming "experts". I always think wtf, I've been doing this for 25 years, yet you just got in now, never consulted me or others with similar knowledge, yet somehow are experts? Wtf? Then this sort of crap happens and somehow it all gets brushed under the carpet, and it reaffirms their knowledge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,251 Administrator · Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 36 minutes ago, fcgamer said: As a collector I agree with you 100%, but sadly these sorts of commercial asshats (graders, resellers, etc) don't know their ass from their elbow, and are all self -proclaimed experts too. This is something I have a huge issue with, namely someone with money (wata) or power (i.e. a school and by extension a shithead seeking a PhD or whatever) becoming "experts". I always think wtf, I've been doing this for 25 years, yet you just got in now, never consulted me or others with similar knowledge, yet somehow are experts? Wtf? Then this sort of crap happens and somehow it all gets brushed under the carpet, and it reaffirms their knowledge... This is really funny coming from the guy with the markered up Star Soldier. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Tank | 1,093 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, Gloves said: This is really funny coming from the guy with the markered up Star Soldier. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKobold | 228 Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, fcgamer said: This is something I have a huge issue with, namely someone with money (wata) or power (i.e. a school and by extension a shithead seeking a PhD or whatever) becoming "experts". I always think wtf, I've been doing this for 25 years, yet you just got in now, never consulted me or others with similar knowledge, yet somehow are experts? Wtf? Then this sort of crap happens and somehow it all gets brushed under the carpet, and it reaffirms their knowledge... As someone with a Ph.D... WTF are you going on about? I have absolutely zero power in this world, just a shiny degree that cost too many years of schooling to make me an expert in a very niche part of science. Literally the opposite of what you're talking about. I was trained by people in my niche field, who are actually experts and have been studying the field I'm in for 30-40 years. I'm not sure if this was an intentional personal attack, or just a random happenstance mentioning Ph.D. in your reply... Further, no one has a Ph.D. in video game collecting, so it's even more irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyree_Cooper | 858 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I know you'll tell me "do it yourself", but has anyone told wata about this? Like on their social media that I don't have? I'm sure more people would look at their graded TG16 games (and more) to make sure once again that no other honest expert mistakes have been made and flew under the radar, at least recently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, Gloves said: This is really funny coming from the guy with the markered up Star Soldier. Yes Papa Gloves, I promise to be a good little boy this week. Happy Father's Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, DarkKobold said: As someone with a Ph.D... WTF are you going on about? I have absolutely zero power in this world, just a shiny degree that cost too many years of schooling to make me an expert in a very niche part of science. Literally the opposite of what you're talking about. I was trained by people in my niche field, who are actually experts and have been studying the field I'm in for 30-40 years. I'm not sure if this was an intentional personal attack, or just a random happenstance mentioning Ph.D. in your reply... Further, no one has a Ph.D. in video game collecting, so it's even more irrelevant. I have no idea whether you have a PhD or not; a such, I am not sure why you would presume that this might be some sort of attack on you. As such, what I have outlined has happened, I'll send you a DM about it later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 5,006 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 hours ago, Mega Tank said: Nice contribution, has Mega Tank been replaced by a bot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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