How much do you tip?

[guillavoie | 1,227]

My friends working in restaurants told me that tipping 18% when you appreciated the service is enough to express gratitude and that otherwise 15% is the standard. So I go by these rules because that's how it is set in our customs in Quebec and I consider it expensive enough to eat in restaurants to not blow money over on it.

This said, I really wish that ''services was included'' in restaurants' price like it is in most european countries. Then you don't need to do any mental gymnastics about the quality of the service and if you ever feel generous enough to leave something, the people actually earning it are GENUINELY happy of the gesture, instead of expecting it.

Once I left like 15 euros on a €200 bill (service was absolutely amazing, and we even got 2 free sparkling wine glasses before desserts), and the chef himself went to the table to thank us for leaving tip, lol. Another time, it was €5 on a €60ish bill, and when we left the restaurant, the waitress ran like half a mile to catch us outside to thank us, and gave us back a scarf we forgot at the table. That is appreciation!

 

[Code Monkey | 2,129]

I want to outline something else here.

Let's say a server turns over 5 tables an hour at an average value of $50 per table, totaling $250 of turnover per hour.

If they receive 20% tips on each table, they're making $50 an hour in tips. Is that an acceptable wage for a waitress, plus her hourly wage? That's more than an engineering wage.

[Jfreakofkorn | 304]

depends on the restaurant and on the how everything is in place 

if they have a tip share involved , its divided among everyone 

if its not , its all theirs 

Edited August 16 by Jfreakofkorn

[Scrobins | 1,804]

13 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I want to outline something else here.

Let's say a server turns over 5 tables an hour at an average value of $50 per table, totaling $250 of turnover per hour.

If they receive 20% tips on each table, they're making $50 an hour in tips. Is that an acceptable wage for a waitress, plus her hourly wage? That's more than an engineering wage.

Waiting for the crypto bro who flashes his money earned from gambling to weigh in on how hard work works.

Clearly you’ve never waited tables. 5 tables an hour would be brutal and is unlikely to happen, more likely 3 and that would be a if (and that’s a huge if) you had a consistent day and any server would tell you that it’s rarely a consistent day in many restaurants. You might have some hours that are busy and the rest of your shift is quiet, and you might have entire shifts that are quiet where you’re lucky to have 1 table every other hour.

You’re also incorrectly assuming every table tips at all, because remember ingrates like you exist. So several of those tables are going to undertip, and stiff the server entirely, nevermind the occasional people that run out on the bill and now your manager is taking the entire bill out of your wages.

Oh and don’t forget to tip out the bussers with some of your tips, assuming you like cleared tables that is.

[Gloves | 12,251]

2 minutes ago, Scrobins said:

Waiting for the crypto bro who flashes his money earned from gambling to weigh in on how hard work works.

Clearly you’ve never waited tables. 5 tables an hour would be brutal and is unlikely to happen, more likely 3 and that would be a if (and that’s a huge if) you had a consistent day and any server would tell you that it’s rarely a consistent day in many restaurants. You might have some hours that are busy and the rest of your shift is quiet, and you might have entire shifts that are quiet where you’re lucky to have 1 table every other hour.

You’re also incorrectly assuming every table tips at all, because remember ingrates like you exist. So several of those tables are going to undertip, and stiff the server entirely, nevermind the occasional people that run out on the bill and now your manager is taking the entire bill out of your wages.

Oh and don’t forget to tip out the bussers with some of your tips, assuming you like cleared tables that is.

Another handful of good reasons to abolish tipping. 

[Brickman | 4,202]

13 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I want to outline something else here.

Let's say a server turns over 5 tables an hour at an average value of $50 per table, totaling $250 of turnover per hour.

If they receive 20% tips on each table, they're making $50 an hour in tips. Is that an acceptable wage for a waitress, plus her hourly wage? That's more than an engineering wage.

But what happens if the next three nights they work they only have one customer an hour or maybe even worse? Their overall weekly wage may end up being really low. That is really unfair to them and way out of their control. All it does is create a class of working poor where the owners profit while the servers have to fight over tips. 

[guillavoie | 1,227]

To the people not tipping in countries where it is customary, remember that the day that tip is no longer left at the discretion of customers, every item on the menu are going to be priced up by 15-20%. So, enjoy your special personal discounts while it last!

[fcgamer | 5,006]

7 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I voted 0 but I should explain.

Occasionally I'll go to a proper restaurant where the server knows every drink and what's in it, they know everything on the menu, water is always refilled, they only enter over your left shoulder and the orders are always correct. I went to a martini bar last weekend and mentioned to the server that I needed a wipe for my glasses so she went to her own purse to find me one. This is where I leave a little extra.

Then I find myself at a corner pub where servers have no idea what's on the menu, they don't know what the gravy is made from, no clue which beer are on tap and enter the table over any shoulder is convenient for them. They're delivering my glass of water with their disgusting, greasy fingers touching the rim where I put my mouth and then they put a pickle on my bun when it wasn't on the menu. I have to put up with all of this laziness and carelessness, then the server tells me they want a tip because their job is hard. Get out of here with your lazy ass, put some more effort into having respect for yourself and the people around you, then you can consider maybe getting a tip.

As long as they are serving the beers on tap in the correct glasses though.  Don't get me started on when the beers are served in the wrong glass. If even if the style is correct but the brand is wrong, someone is going to be hearing about it.

[fcgamer | 5,006]

5 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

If they receive 20% tips on each table, they're making $50 an hour in tips. Is that an acceptable wage for a waitress, plus her hourly wage? That's more than an engineering wage.

This is why wait staff don't want the tip format of pay to be replaced with normal wages. They're the first to complain if they aren't tipped, yet at the same time, it's a widely known secret that they don't want standard wages, as said wages would be much lower, and taxed to hell and back.

[ikk | 565]

I don't get the US tipping culture. If you can't afford to pay your staff a living wage than raise your prices to a point where you can, don't use it as emotional blackmail against your customers.

Here in the Netherlands if the service was good we sometimes round up the final price to the nearest 5 or 10 euros, sometimes more if it was exceptional, but there's no expectation. Lots of restaurants and bars nowadays have QR codes on the table so you can place your order and pay on your phone. Some of these don't even have the option to add a tip.

I will admit the waiting times here are usually longer than in the US, but if you're out with good company you barely notice the wait anyway.

[Mega Tank | 1,093]

6 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I want to outline something else here.

Let's say a server turns over 5 tables an hour at an average value of $50 per table, totaling $250 of turnover per hour.

If they receive 20% tips on each table, they're making $50 an hour in tips. Is that an acceptable wage for a waitress, plus her hourly wage? That's more than an engineering wage.

If they hit those numbers, then good for them. That's a big IF.

Also, there's also the whole movement to push up the minimum wage, which devalues what other people make, does that make it wrong? Should that fast food working make $15 an hour? That's a whole other pickle!

[Mega Tank | 1,093]

6 hours ago, Brickman said:

It was also forced on me on the receipt, your choice was between 15%, 30% or 50%

Literally went to a pizza place we like this week and I paid with my card. The card reader showed 10%, 15% or 20% with no calculations provided. Sure, it's not hard to figure out percentages for some on a $30 bill. The problem is, some don't. I straight up hit no tip because I'd rather pay a couple of bucks cash. They literally just make the pizza, put it on a counter, you pick it up with your canned drink and you take it to your table, and you're peer pressured to clean up since they are not stepping out of their kitchen to serve your table. I'm doing half the job  

[fcgamer | 5,006]

12 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

Literally went to a pizza place we like this week and I paid with my card. The card reader showed 10%, 15% or 20% with no calculations provided. Sure, it's not hard to figure out percentages for some on a $30 bill. The problem is, some don't. I straight up hit no tip because I'd rather pay a couple of bucks cash. They literally just make the pizza, put it on a counter, you pick it up with your canned drink and you take it to your table, and you're peer pressured to clean up since they are not stepping out of their kitchen to serve your table. I'm doing half the job  

As an aside, I don't know about how postal service now works in the States, but here in Taiwan if you want to send something internationally, it's required that you weigh the contents of all of the items in the package, enter the items + weights + quantities into a form online, enter your address and the sendee's address online, provide a total weight for the package, measure L x W x H, and print out the form. What do the actual workers do? Scan a QR code, click a checkbox stating that the numbers and information is correct, and then put the parcel on the pile to get sent. The funniest bit is they call this new form, "EZ" Post, yeah easy for them as I'm doing 90% of the job. 

Your pizza story just reminded me of that. Funny how people want more money for doing less work.

[fcgamer | 5,006]

23 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

If they hit those numbers, then good for them. That's a big IF.

Also, there's also the whole movement to push up the minimum wage, which devalues what other people make, does that make it wrong? Should that fast food working make $15 an hour? That's a whole other pickle!

This is a huge problem, I saw it a lot over here with the teaching industry, as well as with education / degrees.

[Brickman | 4,202]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

This is why wait staff don't want the tip format of pay to be replaced with normal wages. They're the first to complain if they aren't tipped, yet at the same time, it's a widely known secret that they don't want standard wages, as said wages would be much lower, and taxed to hell and back.

Wow I didn’t know that the tips weren’t taxed!

So everyone else has to do the right thing and pay their taxes but wait staff are allowed to dodge the system? That’s a really weird and messed up system. Paying a living wage would be better for everyone involved.
 

54 minutes ago, ikk said:

I will admit the waiting times here are usually longer than in the US, but if you're out with good company you barely notice the wait anyway.

That’s interesting. I went to the Netherlands in 2019 and did notice the wait times were a bit long but like you said you don’t really notice with good company. Loved your country btw and hope to go back one day soon 

8 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

Literally went to a pizza place we like this week and I paid with my card. The card reader showed 10%, 15% or 20% with no calculations provided. Sure, it's not hard to figure out percentages for some on a $30 bill. The problem is, some don't. I straight up hit no tip because I'd rather pay a couple of bucks cash. They literally just make the pizza, put it on a counter, you pick it up with your canned drink and you take it to your table, and you're peer pressured to clean up since they are not stepping out of their kitchen to serve your table. I'm doing half the job  

That’s crazy! I would think a place like that wouldn’t even ask for a tip. Sounds like mc Donald’s but with pizza 

This place was a proper Mexican restaurant so I guess they could get away with it. It’s funny because I had often heard that restaurant prices are much cheaper in the US but by the time I added in the lowest tip of 15% I ended up paying more than I would here for a meal. Might be because it was LA though.

[jonebone | 1,329]

So much going on on this thread...

If you don't tip because it is not normal in your area, that's great.  If you don't tip in the USA then you shouldn't be going out to eat.  It's part of our culture and it will never be abolished because it is entrenched in the culture.  It's just the way things are... just like Canada has "free healthcare" (which I've heard is a joke?) and we don't.  Those are facts-of-life you accept if you live in the area.

I waited tables as a late teen (late 90s / early 2000s), and I believe my salary was $2.38 an hour + tips.  I think I made around $15 / hour at Friendly's on weeknights, then maybe got to $20/$25 an hour at Ruby Tuesdays when it was brand new (and packed all the time).  Later on I worked at an expensive seafood house and those were typically $30+ an hour on the weekends but a lot of the attractive females made much more.  Not stereotyping but if you're working the bar area with a bunch of drinking guys what do you expect?  And those tips weren't shared that much, you typically tip out the bus boy(s) and sometimes the cooks if it were really busy.  But when you're tipping those people out, you made plenty.

What wasn't mentioned is that you obviously are part time with no benefits and you're working every Friday and Saturday night and usually Sundays too.  Your money is in the hours people don't want to work and the weekdays are pretty mundane.  Then you usually buy a meal yourself (some places were more lax and let you get one for free if you had enough pull) since you're working a mealtime.  So that's all great if you're a single person, not so much if you're trying to make a liveable wage as a family.

So end of day I typically tip around 20% plus or minus at most sit down.  If the service is absolutely horrifying I say something to the manager and still probably leave about 10%.  I can't recall ever stiffing anyone.  But at pick-up carryouts I usually just do 5-10%.  I do hate that our society expects you to tip (or at least makes you click thru the tip screen before payment) at so many places nowadays.  That is annoying no matter what. 

Edited August 16 by jonebone

[fcgamer | 5,006]

1 hour ago, Brickman said:

Wow I didn’t know that the tips weren’t taxed!

So everyone else has to do the right thing and pay their taxes but wait staff are allowed to dodge the system? That’s a really weird and messed up system. Paying a living wage would be better for everyone involved.

Well they *should* be taxed, but for anything that's cash, let's be realistic here, there's a ton that is not getting reported...

[fcgamer | 5,006]

37 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I waited tables as a late teen (late 90s / early 2000s), and I believe my salary was $2.38 an hour + tips.  I think I made around $15 / hour at Friendly's on weeknights, then maybe got to $20/$25 an hour at Ruby Tuesdays when it was brand new (and packed all the time).  Later on I worked at an expensive seafood house and those were typically $30+ an hour on the weekends but a lot of the attractive females made much more. 

Those wages sound really good compared to what we were earning doing retail back in the early 2000s. Then again, as I've said before, that's the odd thing about tips. The waitstaff love to complain about it, but then are generally earning quite a bit more than other jobs of a comparable nature. Weird.

[JamesRobot | 6,026]

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

As long as they are serving the beers on tap in the correct glasses though.  Don't get me started on when the beers are served in the wrong glass. If even if the style is correct but the brand is wrong, someone is going to be hearing about it.

Dang!  You send your beers back too?

[jonebone | 1,329]

49 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Those wages sound really good compared to what we were earning doing retail back in the early 2000s. Then again, as I've said before, that's the odd thing about tips. The waitstaff love to complain about it, but then are generally earning quite a bit more than other jobs of a comparable nature. Weird.

Yeah that sounds good but again limited hours.  I'd probably work a 4-9 or 5-9 pm after school, so $15 an hour was maybe $60 / $75 bucks and wasn't guaranteed.  Take off a $10-$15 meal or so and it's not like it's amazing money.  Just much better than minimum wage at the time but nothing glamorous.

[Gloves | 12,251]

8 hours ago, guillavoie said:

To the people not tipping in countries where it is customary, remember that the day that tip is no longer left at the discretion of customers, every item on the menu are going to be priced up by 15-20%. So, enjoy your special personal discounts while it last!

I'd much prefer the cost go up a flat percent than have that same amount have to be factored in by me. I already have to go "OK so this says $20... Plus 15% for taxes..." and I have to then do the same (apparently people want fuckin 20% now...) for a tip. A $20 meal is actually a $30 meal, easily. 

It's even worse on apps like Uber eats. The food is marked up to account for Ubers take, then delivery fees, taxes, AND tip? I went to order some fried chicken the other day. $20 for a 4 piece meal which comes with taters and a pop. It came to $36 in the end, so I just canceled and made pasta instead. 

[RH | 5,206]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions of tipping in here, especially from the international community but on the other hand, processes morph with time and cultures change and lose touch with original intent. All the while, tradition continues and after a while the whole picture just becomes a mess.

Tipping is not, and was not ever intended to "enslave" workers for a low wage.  When it comes to the service industry, much like all of us in our line of work, serious, better, intentional and competent work deserves better pay than average or poor.

With tipping, the value of work is largely offset to the receiver of the services.  This is not to "cheap out" on labor, because there once was a time, nearly 100 years ago, where this was understood and service workers worked hard to do their best.  The tipping ranges, and consistent tipping allowed people on various stratums of society to make "good money".

Buuuuut we now live in a time where it's a tradition, people know the rules of what to do, but not as many know why we do it.  They've adopted the mindset that workers should "just be paid more" but what they miss is that tipping improved the service industry because no one could then get hired into, say, a sea of 20 servers and slack off because they all get an equal pay check.  If you want to get paid well, you have to do your job well.  Who better to observe your job performance other than those receiving the value of your work?  Without tipping, a manager may have to waste his time watching the floor like a hawk.  But with a proper tipping system, he can hire some one, another team member can teach them the ropes of that specific business and so long as their are no customer complaints, their probably doing a good enough job, and the level of expertise they provide should be paid for by the customer who see an average-to-excellent wait experience.  Basically, it balances out the reward for the job and helps guarantee good service--bad servers will not stay around.  They won't get paid enough.  Good servers will make a fair living and the exceptional servers making big tips might consider trying to move up or to nicer establishments where tipping might be higher.

Well... this is how it did work, and it's suppose to work.  But we have converted our society into a pretty homogenized, cookie-cutter way of living. The service industry has some how moved to a place where everyone expects that tip, whether they earned it or not and now, I'd agree, it's "toxic".  That said, I do not think the idea of tipping is toxic.  What I think is toxic is the pairing that just because someone has a job earning $3/hr, they think that just because they showed up to work, took an order, and threw down 4 cups of water that they deserve 20% of my meal.  No, they don't. Good waiting, etiquette, a pleasant attitude and doing something a little extra above what's required is what deserves a really good tip.  This is how the system was designed.  And if 80% of us lived by those guidelines, wait staff could make decent money.

But again, this isn't the world we live in now. I'm not blaming the workers--it's been a slow culture shift but a part of that culture shift comes from the consumer that now prefers to ignore the wait staff as much as they can, and then just throw a few bucks there way.  We can't have it both ways--a fair system to reward quality service, but also ask those service workers to get in and out of our way with as little interaction as possible.

Last, but not directly related, wait staff can actually make good money.  And I do mean, money like what @Code Monkey was talking about.  I've met people that were making that kind of cash.  However, these were the waiters and waitresses working at high-end steak and seafood restaurants, and I don't mean the type where the steak "costs as much as a Buick."  I've known people who've worked at places like Morton's and Ruth's Chris and some of them earned very good pay, especially for a service worker, and part of the reason why was because they learned to truly serve their customers, plus, at a higher-end restaurant like that, we feel the expectation to evaluate and pay our wait staff better.  Basically, that old school understanding of tipping is still present.

Edited August 16 by RH

[Tabonga | 2,533]

In the US tips are supposed to be taxed.  If you a leave the tip on the credit card then that leaves a paper trail in case the IRS looks for any reason.  Cash is supposed to be reported on the employee's tax form along with quarterly payments to the IRS and most state tax departments.  So a lot of people dodge by only reporting a fraction of what they get - 0 or very low reporting would possibly arouse some notice.

Which is why Trump (and "me too" Kamala) thought it might be a good campaign issue.

A charge that has  been showing up at a few places around here is a 5% fee that is supposed to go to the kitchen help.

 

[Gloves | 12,251]

11 minutes ago, RH said:

I think there are a lot of misconceptions of tipping in here, especially from the international community but on the other hand, processes morph with time and cultures change and lose touch with original intent. All the while, tradition continues and after a while the whole picture just becomes a mess.

Tipping is not, and was not ever intended to "enslave" workers for a low wage.  When it comes to the service industry, much like all of us in our line of work, serious, better, intentional and competent work deserves better pay than average or poor.

With tipping, the value of worker is largely offset to the receiver of the services.  This is not to "cheap out" on labor, because there once was a time, nearly 100 years ago, where this was understood and service workers worked hard to do their best.  The tipping ranges, and consistent tipping allowed people on various stratums of society to make "good money".

Buuuuut we now live in a time where it's a tradition, people know the rules of what do to, but not as many know why we do it.  They've adopted the mindset that workers should "just be paid more" but what they miss is that tipping improved the service industry because no one could then get hired in, say, a sea of 20 servers and slack off because they all get a pay check.  If you want to get paid well, you have to do your job well.  Who better to observe your job performance other than those receiving the job?  Without tipping, a manager may have to waste his time watching the floor like a hawk.  But with a proper tipping system, he can hire some one, another team member can teach them the ropes of that specific business and so long as their are no customer complaints, their probably doing a good enough job, and the level of expertise they provide should be paid for by the customer who see an average-to-excellent wait experience.  Basically, it balances out the reward for the job and helps guarantee good service--bad servers will not stay around.  They won't get paid enough.  Good servers will make a fair living and the exceptional servers making big tips might consider trying to move up or to nicer establishments where tipping might be higher.

Well... this is how it did work, and it's suppose to work.  But we have converted our society into a pretty homogenized, cookie-cutter way of living. The service industry has some how moved to a place where everyone expects that tip, whether they earned or not and now, I'd agree, it's "toxic".  That said, I do not think the idea of tipping is toxic.  What I think is toxic is the pairing that just because someone has a job earning $3/hr, they think that just because they showed up to work, took an order, and threw down 4 cups of water that they deserve 20% of my meal.  No, they don't. Good waiting, etiquette, a pleasant attitude and doing something a little extra above what's required is what deserves a really good tip.  This is how the system was designed.  And if 80% of us lived by those guidelines, wait staff can make decent money.

Again, this isn't the world we live in now. I'm not blaming the workers--it's been a slow culture shift but a part of that culture shift comes from the consumer that now prefers to ignore the wait staff as much as they can, and then just throw a few bucks there way.  We can't have it both ways--a fair system to reward quality service, but also ask those service workers to get in and out of our way with as little interaction as possible.

Last, but not directly related, wait staff can actually make good money.  And I do mean, money like what @Code Monkey was talking about.  I've met people that were making that kind of cash.  However, these were the waiters and waitresses working at high-end steak and seafood restaurants, and I don't mean the type where the steak "costs as much as a Buick."  I've not known someone who's worked at places like Morton's and Ruth's Chris, but some of them earned very good pay, especially for a service worker, and part of the reason why was because they learned to truly serve their customers, plus, at a higher-end restaurant like that, we feel the expectation to evaluate and pay our wait staff better.  Basically, that old school understanding of tipping is still present.

Tipping in the States started during prohibition, was my understanding. Restaurateurs had it rough cuz they couldn't serve alcohol so people started tipping to help out their friendly local bar owner. Then prohibition ended and you all just sorta kept doing it. 

Tipping is essentially the same thing as capitalism in general - money is power and people want it, they need it, most of our lives revolve in one way or another around our ability to obtain it. So much like capitalism and democracy, people will inevitably game the system. Turns out if you're a hot 20 something woman who's willing to imply things *wink*, you can make a solid stream of cash on good nights without having to take your top off. Pair that with tip sharing and you bet your ass managers basically allow those girls to pick their days, and/or prioritize having them on the busy days to maximize tips and get bigger payouts. 

[Mega Tank | 1,093]

40 minutes ago, Gloves said:

It's even worse on apps like Uber eats. The food is marked up to account for Ubers take, then delivery fees, taxes, AND tip? I went to order some fried chicken the other day. $20 for a 4 piece meal which comes with taters and a pop. It came to $36 in the end, so I just canceled and made pasta instead.

My understanding is that even what is shown on the App, it won't even be the same for the driver, which is why it's best to tip in cash.

I've been told on certain platforms customers may show a tip pre-delivery and then drop or remove it entirely after delivery. This has made the news as well around here.