General Current Events/Political Discussion

[DefaultGen | 5,724]

4 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

Curious to hear what others think Biden's plan would be to eliminate "systemic racism", which according to today's media is rampant, though I'm conflicted after I started researching a bit. 

I'm almost 100% sure the only way to eliminate systemic racism is if Earth is threatened by similarly-powerful alien force that doesn't wipe us out immediately. That way humans can all come together in their collective hatred of the outside alien species. How unified! Although even then, different religions would probably interpret aliens in different ways and we'd probably all destroy ourselves before the aliens even had to invade.

[Estil | 1,291]

8 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I have repeatedly given links with evidence to support my arguments, even though you are saying “nobody on the other side gives proof”. So have others. 
 

Yet I have yet to see one scrap of evidence from ProTrump folks. The closest was m308gunner, at least he presented an good argument. 
 

I LITERALLY GAVE YOU A LINK TO BRAD PARSCALE’S STATEMENT PROVING MY POINT
 

You should at least be able to tell me how your life has improved since Trump has been elected right?
 

Because when he changed the SALT deduction on Taxes, I got Fucked out of 15k.  So did a lot of folks in CA. 
Thats how my life improved with Trump. 

Oh?  What did m308gunner say?  No really, I want to see him in action if he was able to persuade you.  Honestly, I just vote for those who I match up with the most on the overall balance sheet of issues.  Honestly, I don't expect my life to change for better or for worse just because of who is in the White House or who is our Senators or who is my Congressman and so on.  Remember I'm not one with the economic stuff...I can't make heads or tails of it or Obamacare or any of the other attempts at gov't health care "for all".  Honestly when I first saw that SALT in all caps I thought first of the SALT treaties from way back when.

[Estil | 1,291]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

The thread said not to get political and you did. That's why I brought it up, and others agreed given the likes on my post. You take things too personally. I don't have contempt for YOU.

I honestly don't see that. He's been that way for YEARS. People have commented about it for years. No one has said it indicates any medical condition. It's just another right wing attack on the presumptive nominee, because they want to grasp any flaw as a reason he's unfit. He's a real threat to Trump, and most people on the right know this.

No the thread said not to bring up the protesters and I did NOT.

[Tulpa | 3,715]

Just now, Estil said:

No the thread said not to bring up the protesters and I did NOT.

If you can't see why your post was off base, I don't know what to tell you.

[Estil | 1,291]

23 minutes ago, Silent Hill said:

Curious to hear what others think Biden's plan would be to eliminate "systemic racism", which according to today's media is rampant, though I'm conflicted after I started researching a bit. 

 

EDIT: I also heard Biden's statement on 'if you're voting for Trump, you ain't black" which is a pretty rough thing to say. He either implied Trump is racist and shouldn't get the support of the black vote or that black people who vote for Trump, really aren't "black people" which is troubling. To me, the latter comes off as someone who cares about the votes, more than the rights of/or the voters themselves.

This is what I mean by attacking the voters.  I never thought Biden himself would be doing it though (and we all know about Hilary's "basket of deplorables").  I mean the idea of winning an election is to persuade voters to your side.  You figure you have those on both sides of the spectrum who will (as Tammy Wynette would say) "stand by their man/party" no matter what, so the idea is to court the middle/swing/undecided voters, and for the Presidential election, doing so in the swing states especially.  But I guess most of you already knew that...

Edited June 5, 2020 by Estil

[fcgamer | 5,015]

Don't like Biden at all, he's corruption in a walking corpse. If the Democrats put up a decent candidate, perhaps I'd vote for them. I voted for Obama his first term, for what it's worth.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

3 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

About This being an echo chamber -

 

 

I challenge any Trump Fan to Give us 3 reasons (with evidence of course) of what Trump has Done to make the country better, or improved the lives of all americans - Not just Rich white corporation owners. 

 

Prove the echo chamber wrong and put us in our place, thats the MAGA WAY. 

Looks in mirror.

I'm certainly not rich, and I'm not corporate America. I guess I'm white, yet I'm permanently tanned by now, I guess. Trump's made my life great, has definitely improved my situation

I personally think that it's common sense that no matter what president you have, no matter what rules or laws you make, they're going to benefit some percentage of the population and hurt another percentage. My (non corporate) America family definitely took a hit under the Obama administration, a hit of XYZ $$$, so it's not like things were all roses there either. But they weren't on forums and in the news screaming about it either because, well as I said earlier, they know no matter what policy is put in place, it will be beneficial to some population of people and not others. In fact, a close friend of mine benefited from Obamacare so I can look at it from both angles.

[NESfiend | 1,560]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

And in most cases the anti-Trump people constantly use half-quotes/half-truths and (worse of all) strawman his main issues (for example, pretending he is against immigrants in general or pretending that he's only doing the no TG's in the military thing just to be mean).  So forgive me if I don't just take Trump haters word for it.  I mean I don't think it's wise anyway to just take things at face value no matter what but I do find it kinda suspicious that Trump haters hardly ever bring up the specific issues.  Like I've said before, issues are what count the most.

Ironically, there is no bigger offender of pushing half truths and strawman arguments than trump himself. He literally nicknames his opponents things like crooked Hillary and sleepy Joe. Are those based on full truth or half truths and straw man characterizations? He went on and on about China doing a poor job with the virus rather than offer any real explanation for why he ignored briefings on it and called it a hoax. He's going on and on about mail in voting being an invitation for fraud but points to no evidence indicating that. At the same time, proponents are providing actual information and proof on that topic. These are real examples and just a few off the top of my head. 

I dont hate trump supporters. Where I live, thats 90% of the population and many are my good friends. I can tell you though I know several conservatives that think he is a joke and may vote Democrat in the next election. I can also tell you when my child reads about him in the history books, the inevitable message will be he was the worst president in modern history, divided the country purposely, and made no effort to carry himself with even an ounce of class. Im sure thats just because of liberal spin amongst historians. Just like doctors, media, etc. Everyone making up all these lies because they hate Donald. 

[fcgamer | 5,015]

5 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Ironically, there is no bigger offender of pushing half truths and strawman arguments than trump himself. He literally nicknames his opponents things like crooked Hillary and sleepy Joe. Are those based on full truth or half truths and straw man characterizations? He went on and on about China doing a poor job with the virus rather than offer any real explanation for why he ignored briefings on it and called it a hoax. He's going on and on about mail in voting being an invitation for fraud but points to no evidence indicating that. At the same time, proponents are providing actual information and proof on that topic. These are real examples and just a few off the top of my head. 

I dont hate trump supporters. Where I live, thats 90% of the population and many are my good friends. I can tell you though I know several conservatives that think he is a joke and may vote Democrat in the next election. I can also tell you when my child reads about him in the history books, the inevitable message will be he was the worst president in modern history, divided the country purposely, and made no effort to carry himself with even an ounce of class. Im sure thats just because of liberal spin amongst historians. Just like doctors, media, etc. Everyone making up all these lies because they hate Donald. 

The country was already divided before Trump, and of course he isn't going to carry himself with class, he isn't a politician, and he just speaks things as he sees them. Then again, maybe it's just me, but I didn't know that "acting presidential" was a requirement for being president.

If you (or anyone) wants to go back to the virus thing, and argue that against Trump, then my automatic response is just talk to the hand. The underlying fact is as follows: The virus originated in China, most likely leaked out of a lab there. China tried to do a cover-up, and Tedros and the WHO were in on the whole thing. Maybe Trump initially thought the whole thing was a hoax, but the f***ING World Health Organisation played the severity of the whole thing down, lied about transmissions and other key points, etc. That's where the responsibility lies, and nowhere else. China, Tedros, and the WHO. 

[Estil | 1,291]

Funny, I was always told at the time that Bush 43 would be the worst President in modern history.  And there were those who claimed that about Obama but I don't think those really "stuck".  And then there was the classic case of Truman who left office with the lowest approval numbers in modern-ish history.  Wanna know who the real worst President is?  James Buchanan or if you prefer 20th century, Warren G. Harding.  Look up their wikis if you want to know the details.

[Estil | 1,291]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

The country was already divided before Trump, and of course he isn't going to carry himself with class, he isn't a politician, and he just speaks things as he sees them. Then again, maybe it's just me, but I didn't know that "acting presidential" was a requirement for being president.

Yeah I think everyone (both supporters/opponents alike) figured that from the beginning.  And of course there is that whole thing about what constitutes "acting Presidential".  As I mentioned before, looking back in the history books/footage is a LOT different than if you were in the here and now at the time and couldn't know for sure how that time period would be seen in the future, for better or for worse.  I mean, when the ball dropped to start the 2020s and after the Super Bowl to conclude the 2019 season for example, could anyone have possibly imagined that because of a few tiny little ball things (corona virus) we had to cancel among other things March Madness??

Or even better, you think Doc Brown was flabbergasted at the idea of "the actor?!?" being President?  Well I wonder how "Great Scott!!!" he'd be if not only a "casino guy" got elected President, but the Cubs won the friggin' World Series less than a week prior!!!  Only off by one year, not bad!    Not to mention another actor becoming governor of CA, a wrestler becoming governor of MN, a Saturday Night Live guy becoming Senator of that very state!  And let's not forget a Dukes of Hazzard guy becoming a Congressman, just for good measure  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

"But the WHO!"

"But the Dems!"

"It's about what he does, not what he says!"

 

It's fine.  We can accept the new shitshow precedents.

1.  Accountability is dead.  Always blame the enemy (the other party) for everything.  And refer to them as the enemy, because the growing American divide is definitely something that needs kerosene poured on it.

2.  Grab em by the pussy?  That's just a thing he said.  The pandemic will be magically defeated in the next week?  Pfft, it's all China's fault, we handled things totally perfectably.  Maybe the best ever.  Who needs facts or coherent thoughts when you can just say whatever you want?

3.  Riots and protests?   There's probably a reason that an entire race of people is really, really hurting right now, but we need an enemy to point at so antifa and liberals!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

In fact, what are the odds right now, that if I checked Trump's Twitter, that the top tweet is trying to place blame on a Democrat/media/foreign country?  With no personal accountability? 

Seriously, let's take bets right now.

And then you tell me one boss you worked for who operated this way.  Or one executive or VP in your company?  And how did that work out for them?

[Tulpa | 3,715]

4 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

In fact, what are the odds right now, that if I checked Trump's Twitter, that the top tweet is trying to place blame on a Democrat/media/foreign country?  With no personal accountability? 

Seriously, let's take bets right now.

And then you tell me one boss you worked for who operated this way.  Or one executive or VP in your company?  And how did that work out for them?

You win. He's going after the Democratic mayor of DC.

 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

Oh?  What did m308gunner say?  No really, I want to see him in action if he was able to persuade you.  Honestly, I just vote for those who I match up with the most on the overall balance sheet of issues.  Honestly, I don't expect my life to change for better or for worse just because of who is in the White House or who is our Senators or who is my Congressman and so on.  Remember I'm not one with the economic stuff...I can't make heads or tails of it or Obamacare or any of the other attempts at gov't health care "for all".  Honestly when I first saw that SALT in all caps I thought first of the SALT treaties from way back when.

He didnt persuade me, he just had a well thought out argument. It all kind of boiled down to the fact the he personally believed the president was NOT a moral authority so it there isnt really a retort for someones personal opinion. 

[Estil | 1,291]

1 minute ago, MrWunderful said:

He didnt persuade me, he just had a well thought out argument. It all kind of boiled down to the fact the he personally believed the president was NOT a moral authority so it there isnt really a retort for someones personal opinion. 

Yeah I don't think counting on anyone or any group as some sort of go-to moral authority is a good idea.  Because it's very likely that if you get to know them and/or their inner circle too well, you might not like what you see/hear.  Sort of like how most would probably not want to see/know how breakfast sausage is made.

[NESfiend | 1,560]

47 minutes ago, Estil said:

Funny, I was always told at the time that Bush 43 would be the worst President in modern history.  And there were those who claimed that about Obama but I don't think those really "stuck".  And then there was the classic case of Truman who left office with the lowest approval numbers in modern-ish history.  Wanna know who the real worst President is?  James Buchanan or if you prefer 20th century, Warren G. Harding.  Look up their wikis if you want to know the details.

See my previous posts about George W Bush uniting the country after 911. He put party and petty bullshit aside when the country needed a leader. Instantly gained my respect and countless others and we united as a nation. With 100k Americans dead from covid, trump has had every opportunity to do the same and it would have been in his interest to do so. Would have guaranteed his reelection. He was and is too childish to do so. Hasn't grieved with us for a second. Continues to divide. And yes, until now it was generally a requirement that a president act presidential and W did that even pre 911. Im not concerned America will make this mistake ever again. Trump has given voters every lesson they need on why you need a real leader and not just a clown who will deregulate and boost the economy.  

As far as China being responsible, it matters very little how it got here. Maybe they did send it on purpose, though there is 0 evidence of that. If we get attacked and fail to respond, are you going to give him a pass because he didn't know whatever county may attack us? Hell no. How you respond matters. He called it a hoax, told us it would go away with weather, no one would die. Then told the states to procur their own equipment and allowed them all to bid against one another. Thats not a federal response to a major problem. It was a failure from any objective standpoint 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

"Show me a moralist and I'll show you a guy with a stash of kiddie porn"

Words to live by

[Estil | 1,291]

Just now, NESfiend said:

See my previous posts about George W Bush uniting the country after 911. He put party and petty bullshit aside when the country needed a leader. Instantly gained my respect and countless others and we united as a nation. With 100k Americans dead from covid, trump has had every opportunity to do the same and it would have been in his interest to do so. Would have guaranteed his reelection. He was and is too childish to do so. Hasn't grieved with us for a second. Continues to divide. And yes, until now it was generally a requirement that a president act presidential and W did that even pre 911. Im not concerned America will make this mistake ever again. Trump has given voters every lesson they need on why you need a real leader and not just a clown who will deregulate and boost the economy.  

As far as China being responsible, it matters very little how it got here. Maybe they did send it on purpose, though there is 0 evidence of that. If we get attacked and fail to respond, are you going to give him a pass because he didn't know whatever county may attack us? Hell no. How you respond matters. He called it a hoax, told us it would go away with weather, no one would die. Then told the states to procur their own equipment and allowed them all to bid against one another. Thats not a federal response to a major problem. It was a failure from any objective standpoint 

People thought Bush squandered "international good will" as well.  As for "acting Presidential", look up "Bushisms" on wikipedia.  

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

Trump makes Dubya look like a political genius. 
 

At least he pretended to act presidential and listened to what Karl Rove told him. 

[Estil | 1,291]

Just now, MrWunderful said:

Trump makes Dubya look like a political genius. 
 

At least he pretended to act presidential and listened to what Karl Rove told him. 

I bet you weren't like that during the actual Dubya days!!  At least the second term one.

[Strange | 1,730]

2 hours ago, cartman said:

The Hannepin Country medical examination states cardiopulmonary arrest and the the pvt. investigation asphyxiation from what i gather so they are not in agreement on that part. But both conclude homicide.

 

I’m less inclined to take the word of the county that houses the murdering police department, especially when all other independent reports claim otherwise.

3 hours ago, Estil said:

As I talked with Tabonga about, I wonder why you don't see hardly any R's and/or conservatives (in the political sense) and/or Trump supporters here or other video game sorts of places?  As Michael Jordan would say, don't R's and/or Trump supporters play video games too?

I would argue that the video game hobby is dominated by conservatives/Rs. However, a large portion of the entire world leans left. Even in this country, as right wing as it is. So despite the former, left leaning views are going to trickle in no matter what. The key to healthy dialogue is to not accuse others of oppressing your voice/building an echo chamber when you’re no longer the only voice in the community. And I’m not accusing you of that, but we did have a member cry and take their toys home in the COVID-19 thread.

3 hours ago, Estil said:

The same is true for the upcoming Presidential election...I would much prefer a good fair fight but honestly I don't see how Biden could even handle live debates in his condition.  Like I said before, at this point, Sanders could be a card carrying member of the Communist Party and he could put up a better fight!

I’m saying this as someone who hated and made fun of Biden all 8 years of the Obama presidency and who still isn’t his biggest fan. This is such an overblown meme by the right and Bernie-or-bust’ers. Listen to his address to the nation from the other day - he speaks fine. Sure, he says some dumb shit every now and then, but what I don’t understand is that every critique of Biden’s speaking ability (or any critique of Biden in general) or his supposed mental health, you can apply to Trump 10x over. Biden says some dumb shit? One of the biggest Trump supporters I know says the only time Trump’s left foot isn’t in his mouth is when his right one is. Biden has one foot in the grave? Trump’s down there to his thigh (even when you take away the fact that he’s incredibly unfit physically). Compare their mental health with each other’s. They both do and say the same shit, only one of them does it worse and we’ve seen it for the last 3.5 years. Like I said a few pages ago, the dumbass debates we’re in for are just going to be two idiots screaming “Obama” at each other.

And we need an honest to God communist to run in this country so our citizens can see what it’s really like. It’s pretty sobering that the United States is such a right leaning/conservative country that we think a guy peddling diet versions of ideas that work in every other successful country in the world is full blown communism.

Edited June 5, 2020 by The Strangest

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

14 minutes ago, Estil said:

Yeah I don't think counting on anyone or any group as some sort of go-to moral authority is a good idea.  Because it's very likely that if you get to know them and/or their inner circle too well, you might not like what you see/hear.

I mean... everyone is flawed.  It is just that Trump is way more flawed than most, when it comes to having a moral compass.

[Strange | 1,730]

I’m a middle class white man, and as for how has Trump made my life better or worse: I’ve worked as a government scientist and I’ve lost two job opportunities to his administration making funding cuts because they don’t believe scientific advancement nor safety and efficiency in our agricultural/environmental system are necessities.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

1 minute ago, Estil said:

I bet you weren't like that during the actual Dubya days!!  At least the second term one.

It's all relative.  The bar has been infinitely lowered.

And saying "but Obama" or "but Bush" is a waste of time.  Only one President matters right now.