General Current Events/Political Discussion

[NESfiend | 1,556]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

It’s obvious that you don’t fall for that shit, your arguments are well thought out. It’s not folks like you I worry about, it’s the fact that 70% of Republicans only trust Fox News. That’s a bad statistic, especially when their highest rated shows are all opinion – not even real news

That is a bad statistic, but what actually concerns me is that it isn't higher. 0% of them are watching CNN, etc. For conservative news outlets, at least fox is still subject to getting sued if they put out straight up false info. The other 30% think fox isn't trumpy enough and get their news online where there is no ramifications for putting out false info. Remember "plandemic?" If not, Google it. Fox stopped having that lady on after two appearances for liability reasons. Thats why that video was released on Facebook. That, Alex Jones, breitbart, fake Russian emails targeted to old people who like trump(not kidding my father in law gets them and they are a riot), etc is where the other 30% is at. And those sources are WAY more dangerous than fox. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by NESfiend

[Tulpa | 3,703]

2 hours ago, Silent Hill said:

I'm far from knowledgeable about all media outlets, but I guess I'd point to CNN or MSNBC.

MSNBC has definitely looked at Fox's business model and incorporated some of those opinion aspects. I don't think they as blatantly prey on people's emotions as Fox does, though.

My beef with CNN isn't the bias, it's their reliance on gimmicks and sensationalism. I mean, many news organizations do as well, but CNN has so much global reach and the ability to get news from anywhere, and it just feels squandered on cutesy graphics and what not.

I tend to rely on the middle of the Media Bias Chart section, if you haven't seen it. Stuff like Associated Press, Reuters, and even stuff like Politico and The Hill.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Tulpa

[Californication | 1,491]

I think the people at Fox news who told people for months that covid-19 is like the flu, people should go out and shop and not worry because it's a hoax against Donald Trump, etc. should face some sort of criminal charges. They have literally caused peoples deaths.

 

[Nintegageo | 583]

31 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

image

The problem is that many news sources have decided to lean one way or the other. Al-Jazeera is no longer in the center as an example.

[Tulpa | 3,703]

7 minutes ago, Nintegageo said:

The problem is that many news sources have decided to lean one way or the other. Al-Jazeera is no longer in the center as an example.

I never look at Al-Jazeera, but the ones I've mentioned haven't shifted.

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/?v=402f03a963ba

[cartman | 195]

1 hour ago, Californication said:

I think the people at Fox news who told people for months that covid-19 is like the flu, people should go out and shop and not worry because it's a hoax against Donald Trump, etc. should face some sort of criminal charges. They have literally caused peoples deaths.

 

Yeah but they're not officials so there's nothing to face. And a shitty worker can't get fired either when there is someone that wants to have him employed.

 

[Californication | 1,491]

14 minutes ago, cartman said:

Yeah but they're not officials so there's nothing to face. And a shitty worker can't get fired either when there is someone that wants to have him employed.

 

I wouldn't think about their role as employee's, but more their role as American citizen's.

You know how you more or less have the freedom of speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, because you are putting people in danger. (However the legal argument goes).

They used their freedom of speech and their bully pulpit to put lives at risk and people have died because of them. Every person from the top guys who came up with plan, to the anchor that cared more about their paycheck then killing people should face some sort of criminal and civil prosecution.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Californication

[cartman | 195]

1 minute ago, Californication said:

I wouldn't think about their role as employee's, but more their role as American citizen's.

You know how you more or less have the freedom of speech, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, because you are putting people in danger. (However the legal argument goes).

They used their freedom of speech and their bully pulpit to put lives at risk and people have died because of them. Every person from the top guys who came up with plan, to the anchor that cared more about their paycheck then killing people should face some sort of criminal and civil prosecution.

The thing is nobody can force you to disbelieve in something or stop you from having an opinion. Lying about there being a fire is a much more blatant situation.

Also if the state is allowed to interfere with media like that there's always the potential for abuse.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

Protesters protest black Civil War soldiers (Union ones- there were actually a few Confederate ones at the very end of the war - none of whom saw combat). (This defaced memorial is for the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment - the one that was featured in the movie  Glory - which if you haven't seen I can't recommend enough.)

 

More lives that didn't matter??

Edited June 11, 2020 by Tabonga

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

24 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

More lives that didn't matter??

More like ill informed protesters.

It doesn't make systemic racism and police brutality any less of an issue.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

9 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

More like ill informed protesters.

It doesn't make systemic racism and police brutality any less of an issue.

Neither of which justify rampant destruction/defacing of historical markers.

And it is kinda scary just how ill informed the protesters are isn't it?   Makes you wonder what else they are ill informed about doesn't it - but maybe you don't want to go there.

Let's hope they looted some good history books (if they didn't burn them).  Likely do them some good in the long run.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Tabonga

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

2 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Neither of which justify rampant destruction/defacing of historical markers.

And it is kinda scary just how ill informed the protesters are isn't it?   Makes you wonder what else they are ill informed about doesn't it - but maybe you don't want to go there.

I'll go there. It's almost like different people can have different levels of knowledge, thoughts, and opinions, and some of the protesters are peacefully engaging in their first amendment right, while others are tearing down / defacing historical markers. Hmm. What a novel concept to think about. But nah, they are probably all just rioters/looters right?

[cartman | 195]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I'll go there. It's almost like different people can have different levels of knowledge, thoughts, and opinions, and some of the protesters are peacefully engaging in their first amendment right, while others are tearing down / defacing historical markers. Hmm. What a novel concept to think about. But nah, they are probably all just rioters/looters right?

Opinions is all they do have. Even the face value case of Floyd's death they can't know that it was racially motivated rather than something else.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

2 minutes ago, cartman said:

Opinions is all they do have. Even the face value case of Floyd's death they can't know that it was racially motivated rather than something else.

Ah so all the protesters just have shitty opinions , but you are a wealth of knowledge and intellect on the subject. Understood. 

[cartman | 195]

Just now, CodysGameRoom said:

Ah so all the protesters just have shitty opinions , but you are a wealth of knowledge and intellect on the subject. Understood. 

The opinions themselves (=anti racist police violence) are not shitty but the foundation for such a stance is. Thin like a motherfucker.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I'll go there. It's almost like different people can have different levels of knowledge, thoughts, and opinions, and some of the protesters are peacefully engaging in their first amendment right, while others are tearing down / defacing historical markers. Hmm. What a novel concept to think about. But nah, they are probably all just rioters/looters right?

Or some people are just dumber than boxes of rocks.  The peaceful protesters are apparently down with the violent ones since they generally don't stop them. (And the organizers of the original peaceful protest had to have known what was likely coming since they had seen what had happened in Minneapolis and yet apparently did nothing to forestall what was likely to follow. Somewhat akin to yelling fire in a theater if you are honest about it.)

What we are dealing with (or not as seems to be the case all too often) is that a mob mentality goes into effect and any peaceful ones that haven't turned violent go along for the ride if they don't leave. 

".... they are probably all just rioters/looters right?"
No doubt just like all cops are racist jackbooted storm troopers.  

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

4 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

The peaceful protesters are apparently down with the violent ones since they generally don't stop them.

If this is true then you are down with racists and their racist behavior because you don't stop them / oppose them / don't believe it's a problem.

4 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

No doubt just like all cops are racist jackbooted storm troopers.  

I never claimed that but you can go ahead and put words in my mouth if you'd like to do so. 

 

Nothing you said  makes systemic racism and police brutality any less of an issue.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by CodysGameRoom

[NESfiend | 1,556]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

Protesters protest black Civil War soldiers (Union ones- there were actually a few Confederate ones at the very end of the war - none of whom saw combat). (This defaced memorial is for the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment - the one that was featured in the movie  Glory - which if you haven't seen I can't recommend enough.)

 

More lives that didn't matter??

Using crap like this to attack Cody is completely unfair and unproductive. Its a very small percentage of extremists that don't represent the vast majority and you are smart enough to know that. That stuff is happening at NIGHT when the peaceful protestors are GONE. He doesn't compare you or everyone on the right to the white supremacists who support trump and show up carrying torches with arms drenched in swastika tattoos. Or the ones who stormed the Michigan state house with assault rifles to scare congressman and senators into agreeing to their agenda. Nor do you hear any liberal pushing the notion that they represent the norm in the right wing movement. That would be a childish way to argue. Cody is right it doesn't take away from the problem you choose not to acknowledge (racism). Its just deflecting and avoiding the issue the same way others do when they constantly remind us more black people kill black people than cops

Edited June 11, 2020 by NESfiend

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

2 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Its a very small percentage of extremists that don't represent the vast majority and you are smart enough to know that.

What? No. Didn't you hear Tabonga and Cartman? They all have shitty uninformed opinions and are all dumber than a box of rocks. 

Come on, let's move on from this non-issue.

Edited June 11, 2020 by CodysGameRoom

[Tabonga | 2,533]

1 minute ago, CodysGameRoom said:

If this is true then you are down with racists and their racist behavior because you don't stop/oppose them / don't believe it's a problem.

I never claimed that but you can go ahead and put words in my mouth if you'd like to do so. 

 

Nothing you said  makes systemic racism and police brutality any less of an issue.

 

How do you know I did/didn't?  - I was in HR though so I did have to deal with this  sort of stuff occasionally per state guidelines. And I did get in the faces of a couple of white supremacists who were trying to recruit a couple of ladies (who I didn't know) and Mrs.Tabonga as part of their breeding program.  

I don't normally hang out (actually not at all)  with racists of any stripe - be they devotees of George Lincoln Rockwell or Antifa rabble.  If I did see some from either group doing something I would try to stop it if I thought I had a reasonable chance to do something effective - without something like a baseball bat though I know my limitations as an overweight elderly person with a serious heart condition.

It was obviously a rhetorical question - as was yours, (And apparently it was ok for you though to put words in my mouth eh? So kinda like  the pot calling the kettle black (as it were).

And nothing you have said justifies looting and destruction/defacing. 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

Protesters protest black Civil War soldiers (Union ones- there were actually a few Confederate ones at the very end of the war - none of whom saw combat). (This defaced memorial is for the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment - the one that was featured in the movie  Glory - which if you haven't seen I can't recommend enough.)

 

More lives that didn't matter??

I heard it was white people being paid by right-wing dark money groups who were doing more of the defacing, trying to give protestors a bad name. 

[NESfiend | 1,556]

3 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

And nothing you have said justifies looting and destruction/defacing. 

And at no point has he tried to justify that. He is talking about racism and you are talking about looting. We all agree no one should be looting. But you making the few extremists the example and equating that to Cody and the norm is poor judgment at best. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but focusing on that and not addressing what led to all this comes off as a bit, what's the word? Racist. 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

2 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

  If I did see some from either group doing something I would try to stop it if I thought I had a reasonable chance to do something effective - without something like a baseball bat though I know my limitations as an overweight elderly person with a serious heart condition.

FYI, If I thought you were actually a racist/sympathizer I wouldn't actually be talking to you. I was just pointing out the hypocracy.

3 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

And nothing you have said justifies looting and destruction/defacing. 

Correct... as my issue is with systemic racism and police brutality. Which is a major issue in this country. You know... the mistreatment, beating, and murder of human beings? Bit more important than some fucking statues and monuments in my opinion. And I support the removal of racist symbolism. If you are asking me to justify it, I would say the justification is that we shouldn't be displaying racist symbols in public. Put that shit in a museum and in historical context where it belongs so we can learn from it and not repeat history.

[cartman | 195]

5 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

And at no point has he tried to justify that. He is talking about racism and you are talking about looting. We all agree no one should be looting. But you making the few extremists the example and equating that to Cody and the norm is poor judgment at best. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but focusing on that and not addressing what led to all this comes off as a bit, what's the word? Racist. 

The unjust police killings are the exception not the norm and yet they are being made the example.

 

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,042]

15 hours ago, Californication said:

 Trump promotes white nationalism. We can literally see the uptick of white terrorist attacks during the Trump years. 

It wasn't Biden that said the hot sauce thing, he's not a quick enough thinker. It was Hilary in 2016. She did all that pandering and none of it paid off. 

I think nationalism gets mixed with patriotism and it becomes semantics. I truly believe most people who buy into Trump's rhetoric are white and consider themselves patriots.

Nationalism - identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

So to throw around the term white nationalist is carefully constructed to include more people than those that actually accept that idealogy.

They're Neo Nazis. They don't like Italians, Irish, Jews, hell even Catholics. The white nationalist term is just too soft and not condemning enough for the group that actually identify as such.