General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Gloves | 12,261]

Just now, fcgamer said:

Perhaps, but honestly, everyone's heads are squarely up their asses in this thread

We all see what we want to see, and try to diminish the rest. Not me, not you, not Cody, not Captain Morgan, rather all of us. Do you disagree here?

I disagree. I'd consider myself quite open to the ideas of others, even those I'd currently consider preposterous. I'm sure I'm not alone. 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

13 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Grow the f up dude. Yeah I get it, you want to be progressive and fight the good fight, stand for change. I'm with you there, I agree we need to fight for equality; however, denouncing others' inequality as "fake" or "not real" doesn't add to the cause.

 

Actually, I don't give a shit about any of that.   We need to get bad cops out of those jobs right fuckin' now.  Other stuff can come later.

 

[Strange | 1,730]

You know it’s an assbackwards country when we fund the police so heavily that they can afford military vehicles in small suburban areas and to maim citizens for small violations (and not worry about repercussions), but we defund our childrens’ education to the point that we have a sizable portion of our country that is so susceptible to propaganda that they think the whole thing is acceptable.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

3 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Actually, I don't give a shit about any of that.   We need to get bad cops out of those jobs right fuckin' now.  Other stuff can come later.

 

You care about cops, I care about racism.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

3 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You care about cops, I care about racism.

Ah, gotcha.  So since a white guy was the one who got damaged by excessive force you're on board.

EDIT TO ADD:  Since we're putting words in each other's mouths now and all.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

20 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Perhaps, but honestly, everyone's heads are squarely up their asses in this thread

We all see what we want to see, and try to diminish the rest. Not me, not you, not Cody, not Captain Morgan, rather all of us. Do you disagree here?

I disagree.  I'm aligned with Gloves' comment.

I'm not interested in arbitrarily "diminishing" views I disagree with.  I'm interested in hearing meaningful justifications for things I disagree with.

But there simply is no justification for shooting non-violent, unarmed people IN THE FACE with rubber bullets.

"Breaking the law" in the generic, SHOULD NOT carry with it the risk of unlimited permanent consequences in a country that claims to have a rule of law and claims to protect the rights of people to protest.

To say otherwise certainly seems to suggest that you think what the cop did was somehow reasonable.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

8 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

Ah, gotcha.  So since a white guy was the one who got damaged by excessive force you're on board.

Well if you looked at my previous responses, you'd know how I feel...

Just to spell it out for everyone else, I don't agree with police brutality, but I also feel that everyday people need to hold themselves somewhat accountable for things, when they're breaking the law. See my example with urban ex.

@captmorgandrinker and anyone that thinks a white person can't be discriminated against: read the definition regarding racism, then go to an area where you are a minority group not in power. It's more than being called "whitey" at a restaurant, as I've posted twice, it runs much much deeper. I demand a public apology from you on the matter.

Edited June 15, 2020 by fcgamer

[Strange | 1,730]

8 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

You care about cops, I care about racism.

If you care about the latter, you have to care about the situation surrounding the former.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

4 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Well if you looked at my previous responses, you'd know how I feel...

Just to spell it out for everyone else, I don't agree with police brutality, but I also feel that everyday people need to hold themselves somewhat accountable for things, when they're breaking the law. See my example with urban ex.

@captmorgandrinker and anyone that thinks a white person can't be discriminated against: read the definition regarding racism, then go to an area where you are a minority group not in power. It's more than being called "whitey" at a restaurant, as I've posted twice, it runs much much deeper. I'd like a public apology from you on the matter.

You are out of your gourd if you think that you're the only white person that's happened to, or if you're ever getting anything from me.

I'd be willing to wager I've been in more life-threatening racist situations than you have.   Guess the size of the target on the white bouncer's back in an all-black nightclub when shit goes down.  (which still pales in comparison to what others go through on a daily basis)

The best you'll get is me bowing out of our back and forth because I've bored with it.  

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

21 hours ago, Tulpa said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fox-news-monty-python-joke-seattle-protests-a9565506.html

Fox News’ coverage of the Seattle protests has taken another hit after the news organisation quoted a Reddit Monty Python joke as real for its viewers.

Martha MacCallum, host of Fox News’ The Story, was covering Seattle’s Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) for her viewers, which included claims from the cable news channel that there were leadership problems within the organisation.

To illustrate this point, Fox News shared a screenshot of a Reddit post entitled “I didn’t vote for Raz”. Raz Simone, a rapper, is the alleged unofficial leader of CHAZ.

"I thought we had an anonymous collective,” Ms MacCallum said, reading the Reddit post. “An anarcho-syndicalist commune at the least, we should take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.”

What Fox News failed to realise was that this post was a joke that played off a popular scene from the 1975 comedy Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

Now that is hilarious. 
 

This is exactly why we make fun of fox news. 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

2 more pages of victim hood eh? Good times!

[Estil | 1,291]

I know I've gone on record as saying I like to be able to look at things in ways that maybe most others overlooked, I do have one idea that I'm sure for whatever reason cannot be done completely but perhaps could go a long way towards drastically lowering the use/need of at least the deadly kinds of use of police force, not only the unjustified kind but even when shooting the suspect really had to be done (ask any soldier or officer or whatever who had to do so and even if indeed it really had to be done, they will never again be quite the same).  Okay, here goes...

How about, no use of deadly force by police at all?  At least not by the regular rank and file.

Sometimes a suspect really does have to be "taken down" so they do not hurt/kill someone...but in most cases couldn't being "taken down" by say, taser/rubber bullet/tranquilizer dart done the same job?  Maybe this is a stupid question but if shooting wild animals with a tranquilizer dart is enough to knock them out, is there anyway that could work as a non-lethal force option?  That is, instead of shooting with deadly bullets, wouldn't shooting the suspect with traq-darts/bullets that can knock them out right away, in most cases, do the same job (eliminate the dangerous/deadly threat?) As for the common question of "why not shoot in the leg?" that's because it's a much harder target to hit for one, and second depending on where the shot hit, the suspect could still totally pose a dangerous/deadly threat as long as they are conscious and can still use a weapon or whatever danger they pose.

Now obviously, we are a very long ways away from doing any kind of Star Trek phasers on stun kind of deal (IIRC they rarely set the phasers to kill so it must stand to reason most of the time stun will do the job) but with our current options, is there a way we could kinda mostly do the same basic idea?

Yeah I know thinking outside the box is among the most eye-rolling cliches in the book but I'll gladly make an exception for this one.

[Kguillemette | 1,613]

4 hours ago, The Strangest said:

You know it’s an assbackwards country when we fund the police so heavily that they can afford military vehicles in small suburban areas and to maim citizens for small violations (and not worry about repercussions), but we defund our childrens’ education to the point that we have a sizable portion of our country that is so susceptible to propaganda that they think the whole thing is 

I know I'm a little late to the party, but let's bring up a similar violation. What if the guy got shot in the eye for driving with expired tags? Pulled over by the cops for a minor violation and then beaten to the point of being scarred and disfigured for life. Or straight killed.

 

This has been a legit fear for black people for decades, mind you.

[Tulpa | 3,715]

24 minutes ago, Estil said:

  Maybe this is a stupid question but if shooting wild animals with a tranquilizer dart is enough to knock them out, is there anyway that could work as a non-lethal force option?  That is, instead of shooting with deadly bullets, wouldn't shooting the suspect with traq-darts/bullets that can knock them out right away, in most cases, do the same job (eliminate the dangerous/deadly threat?)

The issue with tranquilizers is that it is highly variable upon its effects. It depends on body weight, blood chemistry and other factors. Too little and it has no effect. Too much and you kill them. That's why things like surgery is dangerous, and why there are dedicated anesthesiologists in hospitals. You don't have time to judge in the field the right dose to bring someone down.

Animals end up the same way. They can be accidentally killed by tranquilizers, and often are.

 

I do think that there is a discussion to be had about non-lethal alternatives, though many are still very damaging (as we've seen with rubber bullets.)

I also think trying to keep a policeman as safe as possible is a route to look into. This contraption looks ridiculous, but I think there is something there.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Tulpa

[Estil | 1,291]

Yes, that too could be an option...that's what I always like to see, creative solutions (who cares how it "looks" as long as it does the job!)...but yes thanks for explaining to me why the traq-gun idea probably wouldn't work without making me look like some kind of idiot.  

And as I mentioned before, tasers as well are intended to be non-lethal force but they can in fact kill someone if used carelessly and/or improperly.  That's why I said earlier I'm giving the officer in the Atlanta incident the benefit of the doubt.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Estil

[Tulpa | 3,715]

No problem.

[fcgamer | 5,015]

5 hours ago, captmorgandrinker said:

You are out of your gourd if you think that you're the only white person that's happened to, or if you're ever getting anything from me.

I'd be willing to wager I've been in more life-threatening racist situations than you have.   Guess the size of the target on the white bouncer's back in an all-black nightclub when shit goes down.  (which still pales in comparison to what others go through on a daily basis)

The best you'll get is me bowing out of our back and forth because I've bored with it.  

1. "I'd be willing to wager I've been in more life-threatening racist situations than you have" - Wait a minute, so people can be racist towards white males, in the USA? Is that what I'm reading here?!? Surely not, impossible.

2. It doesn't matter if the act is life-threatening or not, a racist act is a racist act. I established five pages back already that in no way was I trying to have a contest with those in America getting racially profiled, shot, or killed, but similarly, there are tons of blacks in the USA who get discriminated against, everyday, on smaller issues. But it doesn't change the fact that any issue, no matter how tiny, based on racial discrimination is just that, racial discrimination.

 

[Estil | 1,291]

I just want to caution everyone here before they go ganging up on and making fun of what fcgamer experienced in his life he is not from the United States (which I myself stupidly didn't think of at first when most of the time I would've realized people on forums and the Internet come from all over the world), he lives in Taiwan.  How race/ethnicity relations play out in Taiwan and really in any other country is very very different than in the US.  So would you all please try a little harder to show some respect and empathy towards fcgamer?

[Strange | 1,730]

36 minutes ago, Estil said:

So would you all please try a little harder to show some respect and empathy towards fcgamer?

We’ve been asking for others to do the same towards victims of systemic racism here in the US.

I’m not trying to shit on fcgamer here, but why should we have unending empathy toward him because of what he’s told us, but when we see police brutality before our own eyes we’re told to give the police the benefit of the doubt?

Edited June 16, 2020 by The Strangest

[Estil | 1,291]

9 minutes ago, The Strangest said:

We’ve been asking for others to do the same towards victims of systemic racism here in the US.

I’m not trying to shit on fcgamer here, but why should we have unending empathy toward him because of what he’s told us, but when we see police brutality before our own eyes we’re told to give the police the benefit of the doubt?

You do know I meant I'm giving the individual officer in the Atlanta incident the benefit of the doubt, not alleged police brutality incidents in general right?  That's how it should be, not just "believe all black victims" and "presume all white shooters racist" no matter what (which is what the #metoo movement with their "believe all women" thing tried to do not too long ago) but look at these on a case by base basis...after all to everyone involved in all of these incidents, they're not just one tick mark on a statistic...to them the incident will impact and affect them for the rest of their lives, in one way or another.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Estil

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

52 minutes ago, Estil said:

I just want to caution everyone here before they go ganging up on and making fun of what fcgamer experienced in his life he is not from the United States (which I myself stupidly didn't think of at first when most of the time I would've realized people on forums and the Internet come from all over the world), he lives in Taiwan.  How race/ethnicity relations play out in Taiwan and really in any other country is very very different than in the US.  So would you all please try a little harder to show some respect and empathy towards fcgamer?

You realize he is a white guy born in Pennsylvania right? He is from the USA, he just lives in Taiwan now. 
 

 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

I just want to caution everyone here before they go ganging up on and making fun of what fcgamer experienced in his life he is not from the United States

yes he is

[Californication | 1,491]

Did you guys hear about how the police in San Jose? Their black "implicit bias" was marching in the protests and when he tried to de-escalate a situation, the police shot him in the testicles with a rubber bullet. The irony.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Californication

[Strange | 1,730]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

You do know I meant I'm giving the individual officer in the Atlanta incident the benefit of the doubt, not alleged police brutality incidents in general right?  That's how it should be, not just "believe all black victims" and "presume all white shooters racist" no matter what (which is what the #metoo movement with their "believe all women" thing tried to do not too long ago) but look at these on a case by base basis...after all to everyone involved in all of these incidents, they're not just one tick mark on a statistic...to them the incident will impact and affect them for the rest of their lives, in one way or another.

There are plenty of people, not just here but in the “all lives matter” crowd, that are suggesting that police officers are never wrong and that it’s always the case of a criminal getting what he deserves. To give the officers a pass because “their job is so hard” (I wish my job was as well funded and well equipped as theirs! But then again, my job vets and trains people much more thoroughly than US officers are trained) and “everyone is out to get them.”

We already knew the “all lives matter” and “#himtoo” people were one in the same without being told it.

[Estil | 1,291]

*sigh* So now it's come to this.  Yeah I know many of you guys hate Fox News and believe me I would've preferred posting this story from one of the local Boston affiliates but AFAIK none of the local Boston ones happen to mention in their articles where the statue originally came from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Memorial

https://www.foxnews.com/us/petition-to-remove-boston-statue-of-lincoln-standing-over-a-slave-garners-thousands-of-signatures

And I think their main grievance is really missing the mark...the idea is to show Lincoln in the process of freeing the slave.  They're seriously calling to remove a memorial not just of Lincoln but one in which the original one in DC was paid for through donations by freed slaves??  

I know you Trump haters here must've ROFLMAO when Trump tried to warn how far down the slippery slope this whole tearing down statues thing could go but it turns out on that one, and I really wish on that one he was dead wrong, he hit the nail right on the head.  The thing is, we were warned about this kind of thing before, once again Simpsons foreshadowed it...

Is nothing safe anymore?

Edited June 16, 2020 by Estil