General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Estil | 1,291]

3 hours ago, Link said:

Yes Trump Is Racist: White Supremacist Edition

1) (inspiration for this post) News today: Trump ads use Nazi symbol for putting down protestors
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-removes-trump-ads-violating-organized-hate-policy-n1231468 
considering reclaiming the red triangle in my style like gay people did with the pink triangle in the 80s  

2) Do you like the KKK? Do you agree with them? Because if you don’t disagree with Trump, you do agree with the former Grand Wizard of The Knights of The Ku Klux Klan. Yes, Trump said “I disavow I disavow I disavow, ok? ” Duke... after being asked about a thousand times. Doesn’t change what Mr. Duke said.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/david-duke-says-he-will-vote-for-trump-but-denies-endorsement

3) Charlottesville torch carriers included “some very fine people”. The people who chanted “blood and soil” (look it up) and “you will not replace us”. Do I need to give a link on this one? I hope not. It was hyped pretty big, “on both sides”

4) Neo-Nazis like him too. How much do you like sharing opinion with Neo-Nazis? I don’t at all! 

Here are some not-irrelevant, not-sorta-referential-joke videos:

Okay I stand corrected on the Trump/Ivanka thing.  I did in fact forget about that one...yeah I don't know exactly what their relationship is like in private but it most definitely for both of them for whatever reason is clearly beyond your usual daddy/daughter relationship.  Now before you guys go screaming "whataboutism"...that was precisely my point about why I repeatedly said the D's are backing the wrong horse!  IIRC, Sanders has no issue at all with any history of eh, questionable actions towards ladies nor any kind of racism...so he most definitely could've hammered Trump on his incidents.  Biden is obviously in no position at all to do the same.  Then again I don't recall me ever claiming Trump was anywhere near some perfect gentleman or something.

As for the "racist" things you cited, yeah on that one you didn't pick very good examples:

1) The upside down red triangles were in fact just the opposite of pro-Nazi symbols.  They were used by the Nazis (just like the pink triangles for gays) for marking political prisoners; those whose political views/ideology were not seen as acceptable by the Nazis.  The symbol had already been used for the Antifa movement and the pink triangle too was rebranded/reclaimed in the 70s by the LGBT's.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/18/trump-campaign-runs-ads-with-marking-once-used-by-nazis-designate-political-prisoners/

2) Who in the world among most people would've even heard of David Duke in 2016?  He tried to make a run for Senate in 1990 and Governor in 1991 and bombed "big league" both times.  Needless to say in the political arena he was never any kind of "real" factor and had been pretty much forgotten about since.  So the media digs him up ~25 years after the fact and questions why Trump isn't going out of his way to denounce him (which should've already been self-evident).  Yet hardly any questioning about why Bill/Hillary palled around so much with a former Kleagle (Robert "Sheets" Byrd) nor why they didn't seem to have any problem at all with Confederate flag 1992 Clinton campaign buttons.

3) I had already been reminded that BLM is not just one big organized official group the same way the say, NAACP is.  That is also true regarding both Antifa and whoever the radical/extremists were on the other side regarding Charlottesville.  Trump was in fact correct that both sides had "some very fine people" (mainstream demonstrators who were just regular folks, just like I hope the vast majority of BLM) and some radical/extremists (the ones who went out of their way to hurt people/property, again just like I hope a very tiny fraction of BLM but sadly these are the kind of people who end up getting the most media attention).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack#President_Trump

4)I think they'd be really disappointed in Trump if they knew about this recent police reform package as well as his First Step Act (prison reform 2018; which blacks made very clear had been desperately needed for decades) and that more than any other major party Presidential candidate in recent memory, bent over backwards to court the black vote and in fact made a darn good improvement versus what McCain/Romney got.  

As for your and the others' guy, Joe Biden, let's see what his record is like on that kind of thing:

https://www.leftvoice.org/joe-biden-is-a-racist-who-loves-police-brutality

 

So yeah I will admit I do stand corrected on Trump with the ladies and his daughter.  Both he and Biden as well as the would be "First Gentleman" had Hillary won (thank God we dodged that bullet) are most definitely not what you'd call anywhere near "perfect gentlemen" (like I said, the D's backed the wrong horse and could've went with the guy who IIRC had hardly any issues at all in that regard).  As for the racism thing, Trump has done much as President in terms of reform and I do in fact like what he offered on the police reform in light of what's been going on with the Floyd/Brooks.  Whereas Biden has only come just short of going along with the whole abolish/defund the police thing.  Look we can dig up dirt on both Biden/Trump on the ladies and allleged racism things until the cows come home...but ultimately I've always based my vote on policy/issues, where it really counts.  Based on that alone, I agree with Trump on many of his policies/political views...Biden has got pretty much nothing in common with me.

One last thing, I'll admit I'm definitely not the best at defending Trump, because I've never been one to invest too much in one guy or one group (remember I'm not comfortable with the whole being in a position where I feel obligated to "just" go with the hive mind?)...but personal issues aside I do in fact agree with him on many of the issues.  That being said I do seem to do a much better job debating issues, where at least there I do get some agreement (even hearts!) on some of them.

So from here on, I'm just going to do what I already should've done a long time ago and agree to disagree on the Trump vs Biden thing as we're both beating a dead horse on that one as well as it's become a spitting contest on "who has the most dirt on racism/touching".  I'm far far better at making convincing cases for specific issues, well the ones I actually know/understand at least fairly well.  Besides you guys do know what state I live in and thus how much my vote for President will count for anything right?

So any issues you guys like to have me tackle that hadn't been discussed already?  Besides the economy or gov't health care...those are huge tangled messes I don't think I'll ever make sense of.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Estil

[drxandy | 3,279]

This isn't Republican vs Democrat; this is good vs evil.

[Estil | 1,291]

11 minutes ago, drxandy said:

This isn't Republican vs Democrat; this is good vs evil.

The two major candidates in nearly all elections are each others' opponents, not enemies.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Estil

[drxandy | 3,279]

Nevermind.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,014]

I just want to see Trump supporters try to defend Trump's sexism and racism based on who he is as a person and without regards to his political affiliations. Forget about the election and who Trump's opponent will be. Don't mention the words Biden or Democrats. Simply argue that he isn't sexist or racist by talking about him and his actions.

It hasn't happened because it's not possible. The ONLY argument they can try to make is "well this guy is worse". It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. The fact remains is we have a sexist racist president. 

[spacepup | 2,482]

Not to keep piling on, but it's just sad.  Let me share some direct quotes from the president, *within the last 24 hours alone*

"The recent Supreme Court decisions, not only on DACA, Sanctuary Cities, Census, and others, tell you only one thing, we need NEW JUSTICES of the Supreme Court"
"The DACA decision, while a highly political one, and seemingly not based on the law, gives the President of the United States far more power than EVER anticipated."
"I will be releasing a new list of Conservative Supreme Court Justice nominees ... by September 1, 2020."

"First thing the anarchists did upon taking over Seattle was "BUILD A WALL".  See, I was ahead of our times!"

[21 tweets bragging about how much money they are sending to various states]

"@FoxNews is out with another of their phony polls, done by the same group of haters that got it even more wrong in 2016.  Watch what happens in November.  Fox is terrible!"

"96% Approval Rating in the Republican Party.  Thank you!"

"The Democrats are doing totally false advertising.  They have done NOTHING for years"

"I have done FAR more than any President in first 3 1/2 years"

---

So, within the last 24 hours, he's blasted the supreme court, blasted the democrats, blasted fox news, blasted Bolton (not even shared above), bragged about how much funds he's giving to states, bragged about how he's done more than any other president, and so much more.

His twitter feed is a constant rampage against everyone, which is doing very little in my opinion to bring any sense of peace or unity to the country.  He constantly brags about how amazing he is (such as stating how he has done more for black people than anyone except MAYBE Lincoln), how terrible everyone else is, and attacks our major institutions such as the supreme court and the judicial branch, time and time again.  Every single person in any facet of his administration, who says anything at all against him, he explains is corrupt, lying, evil, etc etc.   Rather than debating or providing counter-arguments, he completely discredits anything that is in opposition to him in any way.  It can't just be that he has a different opinion - the other source is lying.  Or fake news.  Or corrupt.  EVERY time.  

Regardless of whether Biden is worse or better, regardless of whether Hilary was worse or better, WE.  DESERVE.  BETTER. in our president, and it's just incredibly sad and unfortunate.  I try to be a very open-minded and balanced person, and I'm totally willing to acknowledge multiple sides to an issue, and give credit where credit is due (and yes, He has done some things that I agree with, and no, I don't wish harm to come to him), but it is really hard for me -- REALLY hard for me - to stomach his behavior and I just wish we had better.  

Contrary to what some might think, I don't WANT him to continue to fail, I WANT him to step up as a mature, responsible leader, and among COVID, the protests, and everything that has occurred this year, he has had an incredible opportunity to change minds, and really seize the opportunity, and in my opinion, he's failed in that regard.  

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

42 minutes ago, spacepup said:

So, within the last 24 hours, he's blasted the supreme court, blasted the democrats, blasted fox news, blasted Bolton (not even shared above), bragged about how much funds he's giving to states, bragged about how he's done more than any other president, and so much more.

BuT tHe MaInStReAm MeDiA iS sO mEaN tO hIm AnD oNlY rEpOrT tHe BaD sTuFf...

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

5 hours ago, Estil said:

The two major candidates in nearly all elections are each others' opponents, not enemies.

Have you seen Trumps twitter feed? He basically accuses Democrats constantly of treason, with chilidish nicknames (and anyone else who dares go against his wishes).   Can you name a democratic president (or member of congress) who has had an equal amount of animosity towards tOwards republicans?

 

The Trump administration is America’s enemy. They act in the most un-american way possible, and I wont lose sleep over possible jail time after the administration is long gone, not to mention the damage to the Trump “Brand” (hope it crashes in flames)

[Foochie776 | 1,070]

15 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Yeah but he did it legally bc all 25 allegations were over 18 years old. Oh and not on film (sarcasm). Unlike this cringe fest. 

Somehow, once again, we're choosing between gross and grosser? 2016 all over again I swear. 

Spot on my dude, it’s once again a lesser of two evils situation

[ThePhleo | 2,267]

57 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

Spot on my dude, it’s once again a lesser of two evils situation

I’m a firm believer that good people are not attracted to power.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

45 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

I’m a firm believer that good people are not attracted to power.

Find someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming into office

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,123]

2 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

BuT tHe MaInStReAm MeDiA iS sO mEaN tO hIm AnD oNlY rEpOrT tHe BaD sTuFf...

Twitter also regulates his tweets to only "appear" crazy.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Bearcat-Doug

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,123]

1 hour ago, Foochie776 said:

Spot on my dude, it’s once again a lesser of two evils situation

As someone who is registered as an independent and doesn't care about party affiliation, I'm definitely not excited by the options.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,123]

I didn't want to quote @spacepup's entire post, but I agree that we deserve better. I don't care who the President is, I just want someone in there that can do a good job and it's unfortunate that we can't seem to find anyone to do that from either side.

[Kguillemette | 1,613]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Find someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming into office

My personal opinion is Biden is running on a sense of duty than a sense of desire. I don't think he really wants to run more so than the establishment democrats absolutely needed him to. Both to get in front of the socialistic push, and to give a legitimate challenge to Trump.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

3 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

As someone who is registered as an independent and doesn't care about party affiliation, I'm definitely not excited by the options.

I believe the Libertarian candidate plays hockey?   And she's well under 70 years old.

[Estil | 1,291]

 

3 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Find someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming into office

George Washington only extremely reluctantly went along with having the second term.  He could've just as easily established the Mexican tradition (though their President's term is six years) of Presidents only getting one term and that's it.

Speaking of George, this has got to be the most unconscionable of all the statue vandalism/take downs I've seen yet in these past few years.  And they didn't just dear town the statue and spray graffiti all over it.  They wrapped GW's head in an AMERICAN FLAG and set it ON FIRE.  I don't know if anyone else has thought of it this way but I can't imagine Floyd himself would want anything like this going on in his name.

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/portland-protests-black-lives-matter-blm-george-floyd-police-reform-racial-justice-demonstration-rally-march-day-21/

The mainstream BLMs really need to step up to the plate and denounce and condemn these vandals/rioters on a regular basis.  Honestly I'm scared that if given the chance, one of the memorials in DC will be vandalized.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Estil

[Estil | 1,291]

5 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

The Trump administration is America’s enemy. They act in the most un-american way possible...

No sir, the "most -unamerican way possible" are the thoughtless thugs who are tearing down/vandalism the statues of our Founding Fathers (the previous post was the most unconscionable yet) and not realizing or caring that Floyd most definitely would not want anything like this happening in his name.  I'm certain of it.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,042]

18 hours ago, Link said:

is this enough for you?

Isn't that.. uhh.. his kid? Not groping strange children on the Senate floor. 

 

Not to say he didn't grope kids but the video of Biden is exponentially more disgusting. Like 10^8

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,123]

17 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

I believe the Libertarian candidate plays hockey?   And she's well under 70 years old.

Probably still better than the other choices. I did go to a Blue Jackets game once.

[Link | 2,880]

13 hours ago, Estil said:

1) The upside down red triangles were in fact just the opposite of pro-Nazi symbols.  They were used by the Nazis (just like the pink triangles for gays) for marking political prisoners; those whose political views/ideology were not seen as acceptable by the Nazis. 

Yes. It is an anti-antifa ad. Using a symbol that Nazis used to label antinazis. Do you get that? It really sounds like you do but you’re telling me that doesn’t make my case that it’s bad.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

45 minutes ago, Estil said:

No sir, the "most -unamerican way possible" are the thoughtless thugs who are tearing down/vandalism the statues of our Founding Fathers (the previous post was the most unconscionable yet) and not realizing or caring that Floyd most definitely would not want anything like this happening in his name.  I'm certain of it.

They're just statues.

Rioting and wrecking shit is pretty neutral in its "american-ness".

But certainly not "more unamarican" than some of the fascist claptrap that has come out of Trump's mouth lately.

Edited June 19, 2020 by arch_8ngel

[Estil | 1,291]

7 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

They're just statues.

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if it was your town's/city's/etc local statues/monuments/landmarks.  And people have gotten hurt tearing stuff down too.

[Gloves | 12,261]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

... Floyd most definitely would not want anything like this happening in his name.  I'm certain of it.

You can't possibly be certain of that, let's all try to avoid putting words/thoughts/opinions into a dead man's mouth/head.

[Link | 2,880]

13 hours ago, Estil said:

Who in the world among most people would've even heard of David Duke in 2016? 

Um, me. He was a hot topic in the news when I was a kid. I didn’t forget about him. Strange tack to take when you talk about reading history so much.

13 hours ago, Estil said:

I repeatedly said the D's are backing the wrong horse! 

This is a point on which I definitely do agree with you. You may notice I have never said anything in support of Biden. So

13 hours ago, Estil said:

hardly any questioning about why Bill/Hillary palled around so much with a former Kleagle (Robert "Sheets" Byrd) nor why they didn't seem to have any problem at all with Confederate flag 1992 Clinton campaign buttons.

I’m not really a fan of the Clintons either. But they’re not the issue right now, unless you want to make the case that they’re connected to Biden via Obama and that that’s germane. 

13 hours ago, Estil said:

Trump was in fact correct that both sides had "some very fine people" (mainstream demonstrators who were just regular folks, 

I cannot get with you. What were the non-hideously vile views held by the counterprotestors? https://time.com/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally-clashes/

13 hours ago, Estil said:

As for your and the others' guy, Joe Biden, let's see what his record is like on that kind of thing:

 

He’s not my guy, and I agree that they could and should do better. You’ll see your referent is leftvoice; yes leftists do criticize him, and Obama, and Clinton, and other democratic politicians down the line, lord our last two mayors here were vile scum. This is why I and some others I know don’t even call ourselves Democrats or liberals because there is so much wrong with them. They’re illiberal imo but that word such is a barb from the right already I’m not about to fight for it, lol.

14 hours ago, Estil said:

As for the racism thing, Trump has done much as President in terms of reform

Destruction of the national discourse, I admit he has done a lot. 

14 hours ago, Estil said:

Whereas Biden has only come just short of going along with the whole abolish/defund the police thing. 

Not really:

He called for banning chokeholds by police, creating a national police oversight commission, stopping "transferring weapons of war" to police forces, improving oversight and accountability, and creating a model use of force standard. Biden cited a proposal by New York Representative Hakeem Jeffries that would outlaw chokeholds as the type of change he would support.

Biden added that every police department in the country could take steps now to conduct a comprehensive review of their hiring, training, and de-escalation practices.

"Most cops meet the highest standards of their profession," Biden said. "All the more reason that bad cops should be dealt with severely and swiftly. We all need to take a hard look at the culture that allows for these senseless tragedies to keep happening."