Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, drxandy said: Tone deaf attitude deserves firing. No sir, we as American citizens have every right to debate and disagree with any organization/movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,932 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 Oh that evil BLM! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,715 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Estil said: No sir, we as American citizens have every right to debate and disagree with any organization/movement. And companies that hire you have every right to fire you if your statements go against their values. It's freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences. A company has a right to have in its employ people who don't say things that goes against its values (provided the company doesn't discriminate against any protected classes in doing so.) If you go into a public forum saying "I think shaking babies is something everyone should do," and your employer doesn't want to be known as the company that endorses baby shakers, they have the right to can your ass. You can always start your own company if you want to promote a baby shaking platform without fear of being fired, though you might find yourself struggling to get customers. Edited June 20, 2020 by Tulpa 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,616 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, drxandy said: Tone deaf attitude deserves firing. I disagree. There is no discussion if only one side gets a voice. 44 minutes ago, cartman said: BLM doesn't have monopoly on black lives mattering and they have an agenda that comes along with the statement so it's only reasonable not to suscribe to it. The fact that you manipulate the situation with a false dichotomy of either subscribing to BLM or being evil is exactly at the core of the problem with this movement and it's corrosive influence. Hide contents Grant Napear was fired by his radio station and resigned as the play-by-play announcer for NBA franchise the Sacramento Kings after his tweet that said “All Lives Matter” was met with backlash amid the George Floyd protests. Napear tweeted “All Lives Matter … Every Single One!” after former Kings star DeMarcus Cousins asked the 60-year-old for his view on the Black Lives Matter movement https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/us-sports/nba/nba-announcer-fired-over-controversial-all-lives-matter-tweet/news-story/52dafff25cebe46b3e3e1f4af5d72dec So BLM has pretty much become a religion already. 32 years employment career just gone in seconds. Notice how he got shut down for a statement that wasn't even outright dismissive - imagine if he had given a directly negative response as in "no i don't like BLM" yet that too should've been in his full right to do. First off, BLM is not an organization with an agenda. It is a standard, a slogan, an ideal. And those who choose not to acknowledge that black lives matter are being wilfully ignorant and stubborn, not evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,932 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Estil said: No sir, we as American citizens have every right to debate and disagree with any organization/movement. But are you immune to repercussions by private companies? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,616 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Estil said: No sir, we as American citizens have every right to debate and disagree with any organization/movement. The challenge awaits. Black Lives Matter. Not black lives matter, but... It's okay to just say it. Saying black lives matter doesn't mean native lives or battered husbands don't matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drxandy | 3,279 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Black lives matter. That's all there is to it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,715 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I did like this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,266 Administrator · Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gloves said: Oh you're not gonna pull that one again are you? All houses do indeed matter...all the more reason to put out the fire on the one that's burning so it doesn't spread to the other ones! Seriously that along with that silly baby shaking analogy from @Tulpa you/they got to come up with better analogies than that. And yes Tulpa I'm well aware of the at-will employment thing. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,266 Administrator · Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Estil said: Oh you're not gonna pull that one again are you? All houses do indeed matter...all the more reason to put out the fire on the one that's burning so it doesn't spread to the other ones! Seriously that along with that silly baby shaking analogy from @Tulpa you/they got to come up with better analogies than that. I don't get what point you're trying to argue here. You agree with me, great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Gloves said: I don't get what point you're trying to argue here. You agree with me, great! Apparently I don't agree with enough of the BLM doctrine And my point is the analogy is flawed and doesn't really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drxandy | 3,279 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Kguillemette said: I disagree. There is no discussion if only one side gets a voice. If the other voice is racist, I'm sorry I can't listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,266 Administrator · Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Estil said: Apparently I don't agree with enough of the BLM doctrine And my point is the analogy is flawed and doesn't really work. The point of the analogy is that one house is on fire RIGHT NOW so let's focus on it 'til it's fixed. How that ends up being such a difficult concept for people is beyond me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,715 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, Estil said: Seriously that along with that silly baby shaking analogy from @Tulpa you/they got to come up with better analogies than that. Any controversial statement you make is not free from consequences. Like it or not, "All Lives Matter" is a controversial statement. You're not free from being judged for saying it. 18 minutes ago, Estil said: And yes Tulpa I'm well aware of the at-will employment thing. It's not even that. The first amendment can apply to companies and their stakeholders as much as the employees. It's part and parcel of living in a free society. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Gloves said: The point of the analogy is that one house is on fire RIGHT NOW so let's focus on it 'til it's fixed. How that ends up being such a difficult concept for people is beyond me. But it's assuming that none of the other houses are in danger. I'm saying not just all lives in general but there are other groups/people out there who face just as bad if not worse discrimination/ostracizing/etc (possibly even from some of their own family!) that get hardly any attention or recognition at all. At least the BLM kind of movements have all kinds of protesters and media and celebs and such backing them up. What about the marginalized/discriminated groups that get pretty much nothing? Those are like houses that are also on fire but nobody notices or cares about those or those who live in them. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Tulpa said: Any controversial statement you make is not free from consequences. Like it or not, "All Lives Matter" is a controversial statement. You're not free from being judged for saying it. I never said I was. But by the same token BLM cannot expect to be exempt from honest criticism/opposition/disagreement/whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,616 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, drxandy said: If the other voice is racist, I can't listen I feel it is more effective to change minds than silence voices. A local sports radio personality, Christian fauria, got himself suspended a few years back for making racially insensitive jokes. He and the whole broadcast studio, weei, were mandated to do cultural sensitivity training. If this gentleman has been the voice of the kings for 32 years, he must have a level of rapport with the players. A reprimand plus proper training would have been more appropriate. Then again, have any players, especially black ones, come to his defense? Or did he confirm what black players already know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,616 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Estil said: But it's assuming that none of the other houses are in danger. I'm saying not just all lives in general but there are other groups/people out there who face just as bad if not worse discrimination/ostracizing/etc (possibly even from some of their own family!) that get hardly any attention or reckoning at all. At least the BLM kind of things have all kinds of protesters and media and celebs and such backing them up. What about the marginalized/discriminated groups that get pretty much nothing? Those are like houses that are also on fire but nobody notices or cares about those or those who live in them. Black Lives Matter, but.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tulpa said: And companies that hire you have every right to fire you if your statements go against their values. It's freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences. A company has a right to have in its employ people who don't say things that goes against its values (provided the company doesn't discriminate against any protected classes in doing so.) If you go into a public forum saying "I think shaking babies is something everyone should do," and your employer doesn't want to be known as the company that endorses baby shakers, they have the right to can your ass. You can always start your own company if you want to promote a baby shaking platform without fear of being fired, though you might find yourself struggling to get customers. Big conglomerates don't have any particular values they pander to whatever cause that makes them look good and earns money. They'll do bad with faux-good intentions like the case i mentioned or they'll do outright bad like utilizing child/slave en labor etc. They ain't losing sleep over Floyd or anyone else better believe it. Yes they can fire him over this but is it righteous thing to do so that is the question. Talking about values in a case where someone is fired for not completely submitting himself to BLM is a weak argument when it's a blatant move at silencing any differing political discourse no matter how it was said. The fact that he was responding to a question and not the other way around makes it all the more grimey. Kaepernick was stunting his politicial opinion in a situation where he wasn't even being asked and one could say that he was more of a representative for a "uniform" vs. free agent than this commentator. Would you support Kaepernick getting sacked on sheer principle for opinionating what the company finds onappropriate by the same logic? But the same rules don't apply to him by societies standards because he conforms to the popular notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 IOW legally in the right =/= necessarily to morally/ethically right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kguillemette said: Black Lives Matter, but.... I'm not going to just forget about the others either when they're being wronged too. None of it any good and I don't like any of it. And this idea of only caring about black shooting victims and automatically presuming every white cop who shoots a black suspect is automatically guilty of a racist hate crime without even bothering to find out first what really happened, no way. No fricking way. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kguillemette | 1,616 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Estil said: I'm not going to just forget about the others either when they're being wronged too. None of it any good and I don't like any of it. Well of course the other groups matter and shouldn't be forgotten. The point here is that black lives matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange | 1,730 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Black lives matter. That’s it. Period. Any addendum or condition anyone tries to apply to that statement is objectively incorrect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,292 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Strangest said: Black lives matter. That’s it. Period. Any addendum or condition anyone tries to apply to that statement is objectively incorrect. That is an opinion just like what I've and the others here said are opinions. And no I will not just say BLM only by itself, not with all the strings that come attached to it. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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