arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said: Freedom of Speech comes with consequences. What if someone wants to put up a statue of Osama bin Laden in their front yard? They should be allowed to do so? And no one should have issue with it? Come on. In their own front yard? yes, they should absolutely be allowed to do so, just like the tasteless idiots with confederate flags. Given a place in the public square? That is a totally different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: In their own front yard? yes, they should absolutely be allowed to do so, just like the tasteless idiots with confederate flags. Given a place in the public square? That is a totally different issue. I've got someone down the street from me with a Confederate flag in their yard. They have the freedom to put it there and everyone with common sense has the freedom to think they are idiots, so it balances out nicely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Didn't realize the founders toppled British rule from the ballot box. Thanks for the history lesson. That's just the point, they didn't really have one...you know taxation without representation? Their mother country being about 3000 miles away and each way needing two months by ship? In fact in terms of the whole 21 year old white male property owners only being allowed to vote during the first several decades of our country's history...it may be unconscionable by today's standards but back then for suffrage to even go that far was a fairly new revolutionary concept. Not to mention only the House was decided by direct election at the time. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Just now, Bearcat-Doug said: I've got someone down the street from me with a Confederate flag in their yard. They have the freedom to put it there and everyone with common sense has the freedom to think they are idiots, so it balances out nicely. I hope you're not saying the cast of the Dukes of Hazzard, Alabama (the band, not the state) and Hank Williams, Jr are idiots. Because none of them had ever had a racist bone in their bodies. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Estil said: I hope you're not saying the cast of the Dukes of Hazzard, Alabama (the band, not the state) and Hank Williams, Jr are idiots. Because none of them had ever had a racist bone in their bodies. No, I'm talking about people at the end of my street in 2020 with one on the side of their house. I have no idea if they are racist or not, but it doesn't paint them in the best light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said: No, I'm talking about people at the end of my street in 2020 with one on the side of their house. I have no idea if they are racist or not, but it doesn't paint them in the best light. Back then it was just figured they were showing pride in being from the South and that was that. No one back then seriously questioned if someone was a racist just from having/displaying the flag in of itself (which for the record wasn't even the real Confederate national flag; look it up). Nowadays you're pretty much presumed racist if you do. Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Estil said: Back then it was just figured they were showing pride in being from the South and that was that. No one back then seriously questioned if someone was a racist just from having/displaying the flag in of itself. Nowadays you're pretty much presumed racist if you do. You forgot Lynyrd Skynyrd by the way. I'm literally across the river from Kentucky. I'm aware that some people just think of it as a symbol of southern pride, but obviously it means a lot more than that to other people, so if you choose to display that symbol you are leaving it up to interpretation as to what you mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said: You lot have been abusing those people since the start. It’s basically equivalent to our shitty treatment of American Indians. Pleading ignorance obviously is not a defense for your country’s issues. What a turd ass country you live in. You do know that some of those Indians/tribes sided with the Confederacy and some even owned slaves right? Yet another example of why history can't be divided up neatly into good guy groups and bad guy groups as much as some wish/want it. Who do you mean by "you lot" and "those people" exactly? Edited June 20, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, Bearcat-Doug said: You forgot Lynyrd Skynyrd by the way. I'm literally across the river from Kentucky. I'm aware that some people just think of it as a symbol of southern pride, but obviously it means a lot more than that to other people, so if you choose to display that symbol you are leaving it up to interpretation as to what you mean. I wasn't sure if they ever really used the flag; after all contrary to popular belief the band was not singing "In Birmingham they loved their gov'ner" in support of said governor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Estil said: I wasn't sure if they ever really used the flag; after all contrary to popular belief the band was not singing "In Birmingham they loved their gov'ner" in support of said governor. They have used it as a backdrop at concerts and on t-shirts, so yeah they used it. Edited June 20, 2020 by Bearcat-Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, Estil said: That's just the point, they didn't really have one...you know taxation without representation? Their mother country being about 3000 miles away and each way needing two months by ship? In fact in terms of the whole 21 year old white male property owners only being allowed to vote during the first several decades of our country's history...it may be unconscionable by today's standards but back then for suffrage to even go that far was a fairly new revolutionary concept. Not to mention only the House was decided by direct election at the time. I was being facetious, and you're being obtuse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, Estil said: Back then it was just figured they were showing pride in being from the South and that was that. No one back then seriously questioned if someone was a racist just from having/displaying the flag in of itself (which for the record wasn't even the real Confederate national flag; look it up). Nowadays you're pretty much presumed racist if you do. The "confederate flag" (in quotes, because you're right, it isn't the actual flag of the confederacy) has been a symbol of casual racism for a LONG time. The history of how it wormed its way onto various state flags is pretty clear what its intentions are and have always been. Don't kid yourself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Estil said: Back then it was just figured they were showing pride in being from the South and that was that. No one back then seriously questioned if someone was a racist just from having/displaying the flag in of itself (which for the record wasn't even the real Confederate national flag; look it up). Nowadays you're pretty much presumed racist if you do. I could also wear a swastika and claim that it was originally meant as a symbol of prosperity, but I'm betting 99.99% of people wouldn't see it that way. The meaning of symbols evolve just like words, so it might be a good idea to keep up with the current interpretation. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said: I could also wear a swastika and claim that it was originally meant as a symbol of prosperity, but I'm betting 99.99% of people wouldn't see it that way. The meaning of symbols evolve just like words, so it might be a good idea to keep up with the current interpretation. Except, bear in mind, there was essentially never an actual positive connotation to the popularized confederate flag that isn't revisionist in nature. Every instance of it appearing as part of a state flag is attributable to pushback against civil rights. There is an immense amount of revisionism tied up in any usage of that flag and what it supposedly ever symbolized. Edited June 20, 2020 by arch_8ngel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, arch_8ngel said: Except, bear in mind, there was NEVER an actual positive connotation to the popularized confederate flag. Every instance of it appearing as part of a state flag is attributable to pushback against civil rights. There is an immense amount of revisionism tied up in any usage of that flag and what it supposedly ever symbolized. I agree. I think the people that use it as a symbol of "southern pride" are just being dense, but there's a lot of that going around lately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, Hammerfestus said: You lot have been abusing those people since the start. It’s basically equivalent to our shitty treatment of American Indians. Pleading ignorance obviously is not a defense for your country’s issues. What a turd ass country you live in. I'm not "pleading" anything i just don't know much about it. And i wasn't talking about Americas historical abuse but the current SJW shit running rampant where people are effectively silenced and risk losing their career at any time over saying the wrong thing. Where one side is automatically "good" so even questioning the factual validity of their claims gets you branded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Tough to argue with Einstein. Edited June 21, 2020 by Bearcat-Doug 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerfestus | 4,100 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Estil said: You do know that some of those Indians/tribes sided with the Confederacy and some even owned slaves right? Yet another example of why history can't be divided up neatly into good guy groups and bad guy groups as much as some wish/want it. Who do you mean by "you lot" and "those people" exactly? I mean the Swedes have been abusing the Sami. I didn’t think that that was that veiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drxandy | 3,279 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/19/politics/mike-pence-black-lives-matter-all-lives-matter/index.html Asked repeatedly to say 'Black lives matter,' Mike Pence says 'all lives matter' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulpa | 3,704 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/6-trump-campaign-members-tulsa-test-positive-coronavirus-ahead-rally-n1231647 6 Trump campaign members in Tulsa test positive for the coronavirus ahead of rally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, arch_8ngel said: The "confederate flag" (in quotes, because you're right, it isn't the actual flag of the confederacy) has been a symbol of casual racism for a LONG time. The history of how it wormed its way onto various state flags is pretty clear what its intentions are and have always been. Don't kid yourself. You mean like how a certain Arkansas governor signed into law in 1987 confirming that one of the stars on the AR flag is indeed to commemorate the Confederacy? And there is no such thing as casual racism or dog whistling or whistling Dixie or whatever. Dude, either you're a racist or you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said: I could also wear a swastika and claim that it was originally meant as a symbol of prosperity, but I'm betting 99.99% of people wouldn't see it that way. The meaning of symbols evolve just like words, so it might be a good idea to keep up with the current interpretation. Yeah as if everything else he did wasn't bad enough he was also a plagiarist! Just take a symbol that was a nice prosperity sort of symbol (which was used for Zelda's First Quest Dungeon 3 map), flip it backwards, stand it on its end and call it a day. The Klan wasn't any better in that regard... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,122 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Estil said: Yeah as if everything else he did wasn't bad enough he was also a plagiarist! Just take a symbol that was a nice prosperity sort of symbol (which was used for Zelda's First Quest Dungeon 3 map), flip it backwards, stand it on its end and call it a day. The Klan wasn't any better in that regard... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote Watch out for that Adolf Hitler, he's a bad egg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, cartman said: I'm not "pleading" anything i just don't know much about it. And i wasn't talking about Americas historical abuse but the current SJW shit running rampant where people are effectively silenced and risk losing their career at any time over saying the wrong thing. Where one side is automatically "good" so even questioning the factual validity of their claims gets you branded. Like I've tried to warn over and over and over again, what if one day it's your speech and your values and your beliefs that get effectively silenced and cause your career to get lost over saying the wrong thing, or being branded as being the bad guys or the bad values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Estil said: And there is no such thing as casual racism or dog whistling or whistling Dixie or whatever. Dude, either you're a racist or you're not. "Casual racism" is very definitely a thing,. And "dog whistles" are very definitely a real thing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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