General Current Events/Political Discussion

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

1 minute ago, Tabonga said:

You have to start young.

Dont get me wrong, I save quite well and have multiple investment accounts, but I pay someone to manage it for me. I have no idea how the grand scheme of world economics works, and not sure if my Brain has any room left

[Tabonga | 2,533]

Just now, MrWunderful said:

Dont get me wrong, I save quite well and have multiple investment accounts, but I pay someone to manage it for me. I have no idea how the grand scheme of world economics works, and not sure if my Brain has any room left

It was a (simple) joke in response to what I saw as a joke.

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

6 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

It was a (simple) joke in response to what I saw as a joke.

I always felt managing money is something that should be taught it in schools, my parents were very clear in explaining about saving for a rainy day/retirement etc. as well as real estate. 

[Tabonga | 2,533]

5 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I always felt managing money is something that should be taught it in schools, my parents were very clear in explaining about saving for a rainy day/retirement etc. as well as real estate. 

I didn't have any such courses - I did have a good grasp of math, took some statistics* classes and also some formal logic* classes that allowed me to self teach.   (It always amazes me how people really don't understand interest rates and what they can do to an outstanding bill.)

Didn't make me a financial wizard but it did make me prepare pretty well for retirement on a fairly modest pension. 

*Which are the only courses I ever felt were really useful from my college days.

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

11 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I always felt managing money is something that should be taught it in schools, my parents were very clear in explaining about saving for a rainy day/retirement etc. as well as real estate. 

Yep.   And why running a credit card balance is bad, when and when not to refi, etc.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

13 minutes ago, captmorgandrinker said:

......... And why running a credit card balance is bad.................

Heh - I made about $1500* from about September on  running credit card balances.   

*Real (i.e. US) money that is.   

Edited July 11, 2020 by Tabonga

[Californication | 1,491]

58 minutes ago, ICrappedMyPants said:

Too soon to see the inflation impact. Also, other countries are pumping cash into their economies so it sort of offsets. True, dollar is treated differently than other currencies for now, but there is global pressure to change that.

Yeah, I know about quantitative easing, personally I’m not a big fan of the Fed. They have seemed to screw the pooch too often. I blame them a lot for Great Depression and dot com bubble. In the later case they raised rates way to fast to curb their fear of inflation. They’ve gone the opposite way, propping up the economy with historically low rates and quantitative easing. Personally, this last recovery has been more paper thin than people would like to admit. Debt has been too affordable for too long. 
 

I appreciate what you’re saying. I just don’t agree with it. With that said, I don’t buy into complete free market economics either. I believe it’s a balance between the both of you. What do I know though, my specialty is financial reporting. I report on the past, not future.

I agree about the bubbles and cheap lending. 

But lending cheap money to corporations is not what I am talking about though. I am talking about using the country's ability to deficit spend to create programs that grow the economy like single payer, college tuition, and infrastructure spending. It is the conservative that says that we cannot afford these programs while each successive conservative president empties the treasure to fill the pockets of the upper class. (With the assisstance of moderate democrats)

Edited July 11, 2020 by Californication

[ICrappedMyPants | 302]

@Californication

I would support infrastructure spending. The other two, not so much. A college education is essentially meaningless today. It’s stupid to require one for many jobs. I wanted to become a CPA, so I had to take a certain amount of credits. In theory, that protects people because it requires a certain threshold of studies and ability to pass an exam. In reality, much of that could be taught through working in internships or  a rigorous six month program. It’s incredible to see how many people walking around with MBAs are incompetent hacks in corporate America. Not to mention, how many times one can retake the CPA exam and be licensed just the same as someone that passed it all on the first attempt. IMO, most people do not belong in college and it’s a corrupt system that takes advantage of people because the world says it’s necessary to have this degree. Look at people who go into social work. They usually have to get a masters or PhD and are still paid like trash. 
 

I don’t know if you’ve ever dealt with government contracts, but I’ve seen the amount of bloat and bs that goes into supplying the US government versus a private company. I don’t trust them to handle healthcare any better. Billing is already outrageous with private insurance. How does a hospital charge $40M ($40K) only to be knocked down to $1M after insurance discounts? It would be far worse under the government. I’ve seen some of the Medicare billing practices too. It’s a mess.

[Estil | 1,291]

26 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Heh - I made about $1500* from about September on  running credit card balances.   

*Real (i.e. US) money that is.   

I don't get it...all that does is rack up high interest does it not?  

[Tabonga | 2,533]

18 minutes ago, Estil said:

I don't get it...all that does is rack up high interest does it not?  

Not if you did it right.  (I don't recommend this unless one has really tight control of his/her finances). For awhile new credit card offers were offering cash back bonuses* (anywhere from $50 to $400) if you got their card and used it to charge a certain amount within a certain time frame (usually 3 months) - generally with a year's free interest ** (to entice one to spend more).

I have 3 credit cards that I use for most purchases (easier than writing checks and I get a bit of cash back) - but I pay them off each month. Whenever I got a new card I would switch to that from the others, charge the amount I needed,  collect the cash bonus,  go back to my regular cards and then pay the new one off (with no interest).  An important part of this was to resist temptation and only charge what I normally would anyway.

I am not sure if the credit cards are still doing this - I haven't seen any new offers for awhile.

Anyway that is how I got the free swag - and my credit rating has always been really good - this shot it pretty much to the top.  

*Usually in the form of a statement credit (no matter - it was still free money),   I did have one that insisted on depositiing it into my checking account. In addition to the cash bonus I got another $25 or so on most of the cards as the normal cash back based on purchases.

**A couple of things to watch out for - some will charge a membership fee in a year. Just remember to cancel before then. And some will not give any interest free period - just pay off any charges each month.

 

[Estil | 1,291]

Hey you said "on running credit card balances"...if you pay them off each month that's just the opposite.  I mean of course you should ideally do that but that's not what you said at first and that's what threw me off.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

3 minutes ago, Estil said:

Hey you said "on running credit card balances"...if you pay them off each month that's just the opposite.  I mean of course you should ideally do that but that's not what you said at first and that's what threw me off.

I would run small balances until I got the credit so it would get applied rather than my having to charge more.  I also floated myself a couple of short term loans to cover unplanned for occurences  (for example I had to have a molar extracted and Mrs.Tabonga had to have 3 crowns put in). Rather than dip into our ready cash reserves I put them on two of the  new cards and paid them off over the course of a few months.

[Makar | 2,062]

2 hours ago, Tabonga said:

I didn't have any such courses - I did have a good grasp of math, took some statistics* classes and also some formal logic* classes that allowed me to self teach.   (It always amazes me how people really don't understand interest rates and what they can do to an outstanding bill.)

Didn't make me a financial wizard but it did make me prepare pretty well for retirement on a fairly modest pension. 

*Which are the only courses I ever felt were really useful from my college days.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to tell my friend PAY.OFF.YOUR.STUDENT.LOANS.ASAP. and he just keeps pushing it aside and buying a new truck and house and whatever else he wants to. He keeps wracking up debt. When it's all said and done, he's going to have paid triple the amount he took out for his loan because he just doesn't understand interest. You gotta pay that stuff off first before you buy shiny toys. Discipline is a crucial skill to manage your money well. Just because you CAN buy something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I agree as well with what others have said. Financial courses need to be mandated in school. It's a necessary life skill, and not knowing how to manage money screws people over for their entire life. Thankfully I self taught as well, and over the past 4 months have learned about stocks too which I believe is another important thing people should learn. You can make a ton of money in stocks if you know what you're doing. And corona has provided a very rare buying opportunity. Tons of stocks are still "on sale". As an example, just look at how cheap airline stocks still are compared to where they used to be pre-corona. 

[Tabonga | 2,533]

1 minute ago, Makar said:

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to tell my friend PAY.OFF.YOUR.STUDENT.LOANS.ASAP. and he just keeps pushing it aside and buying a new truck and house and whatever else he wants to. 

Fortunately I was in college in an era when it was possible to not acquire student debt (despite being dirt poor) whilst attending college.

Mrs. Tabonga (who is a bit younger than me) got the last of the low interest student loans - about 6k at 3% when she graduated.  At that rate we just paid the minimum payment and used the money we would have used to prepay on higher interest obligations (or to avoid them in the firat place).

But I know whar you mean - I have a close relative who I have bailed out on credit cards several times - and *sighs* I am generally on the low end of the priority list when it comes to paying their bills.  I always eventually get paid back - but the assumption seems to be since I generally keep a little liquid cash on hand I don't need that money back in a timely fashion for other purposes.

[Makar | 2,062]

14 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Fortunately I was in college in an era when it was possible to not acquire student debt (despite being dirt poor) whilst attending college.

Mrs. Tabonga (who is a bit younger than me) got the last of the low interest student loans - about 6k at 3% when she graduated.  At that rate we just paid the minimum payment and used the money we would have used to prepay on higher interest obligations (or to avoid them in the firat place).

But I know whar you mean - I have a close relative who I have bailed out on credit cards several times - and *sighs* I am generally on the low end of the priority list when it comes to paying their bills.  I always eventually get paid back - but the assumption seems to be since I generally keep a little liquid cash on hand I don't need that money back in a timely fashion for other purposes.

Nice. Yea it's always good to pay back higher interest stuff first. You'll save a ton of money in the long run doing it that way. 

College is getting really crazy expensive. I suspect the college bubble will burst within the next 20 years and then maybe we'll see a big shift. Maybe towards accreditation. You take classes online or wherever, and they get you a piece of paper that says you're qualified for whatever it is you got that training for. 

Maybe there's another new system where employers say hey if you want to work here, take x, y and z and then you'll be good to go. No 120 credits required. Only 9, 15, 30, whatever. 

I'm also amazed at how many people with good paying jobs have no savings, or live paycheck to paycheck or both. I just don't understand how it's possible. I know people making 100k a year who have no savings, and this girl who makes that, probably more actually, and was talking at the beginning of corona about how she didn't know what she'd do because she only had enough to pay the bills for one month. I think to myself man, what are you guys doing. There is no reason to be broke when you make 100k+ a year. You're doing something way wrong if that's the boat you're in. (This is all in Maryland btw, and not a big expensive city like NYC or San Francisco).

I don't mean that to sound harsh. I know everyone's circumstances are different. And I'm not talking about people who make minimum wage. I totally get that struggle. Basically, save money every pay check, pay off your loans asap, pay your bills on time, don't spend much money on things you don't need, invest, do the full matching amount if your company offers that, write down what you spend on everything in a month, multiply by 12, and see how much money you net. Also look at areas you can cut down expenses. If you do a lot of these, you'll be fine financially. 

[Tabonga | 2,533]

@Makar 

While some people just don't have the resources to mobilize I think for most it is that they just have a sense of time that is gounded in the here and now rather than taking the future into consideration.  And I think that people younger than me (not sure how old you are) have often benefited from a life where things have appeared* (seemingly out of nowhere) courtesy of their parents and they just don't have the habit of thinking into the future.

*Think Eloi here!

[Californication | 1,491]

11 hours ago, ICrappedMyPants said:

@Californication

I would support infrastructure spending. The other two, not so much. A college education is essentially meaningless today. It’s stupid to require one for many jobs. I wanted to become a CPA, so I had to take a certain amount of credits. In theory, that protects people because it requires a certain threshold of studies and ability to pass an exam. In reality, much of that could be taught through working in internships or  a rigorous six month program. It’s incredible to see how many people walking around with MBAs are incompetent hacks in corporate America. Not to mention, how many times one can retake the CPA exam and be licensed just the same as someone that passed it all on the first attempt. IMO, most people do not belong in college and it’s a corrupt system that takes advantage of people because the world says it’s necessary to have this degree. Look at people who go into social work. They usually have to get a masters or PhD and are still paid like trash. 

I don’t know if you’ve ever dealt with government contracts, but I’ve seen the amount of bloat and bs that goes into supplying the US government versus a private company. I don’t trust them to handle healthcare any better. Billing is already outrageous with private insurance. How does a hospital charge $40M ($40K) only to be knocked down to $1M after insurance discounts? It would be far worse under the government. I’ve seen some of the Medicare billing practices too. It’s a mess.

That's good that you like infrastructure spending, it seems like it's always a win-win, I don't understand why legislators let our infrastructure rot.

I am surprised you have an issue with single payer and education. You said you are for legislation that helps people and you are a fiscal conservative. We literally have some  of the worst health care outcomes among developed countriess while paying the highest rates. The cost of single payer has been measured to save trillions of dollars by people from all sides of the debate and it would save tens of thousands of lives each year. Where is the down side? 

If you have an education, especially in business, it makes things easier, period. And for anyone that applies themselves in college, you come out the other side a different person. I am not saying ideologically per se, but if you go to school and half way listen you will learn so much more about the world in a shorter period of time than someone that doesn't get the opportunity to attend college. And college is meant to give you a taste of different ideas, if you hear something that interests you, it is on you to follow up and learn more.

Yes, people can be successful without an education. Yes, some don't use their degree. Yes, some college graudates cheat to get through. Yes, some college graduates are dopes. None of those are reasons why we shouldn't off higher publlic education for free.

The reason politicians don't want you to have an education is because ignorant people are easier sheeple and because if education was free it would be less of a differentiatior between middle class and poor.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Californication

[Makar | 2,062]

13 hours ago, Tabonga said:

@Makar 

While some people just don't have the resources to mobilize I think for most it is that they just have a sense of time that is gounded in the here and now rather than taking the future into consideration.  And I think that people younger than me (not sure how old you are) have often benefited from a life where things have appeared* (seemingly out of nowhere) courtesy of their parents and they just don't have the habit of thinking into the future.

*Think Eloi here!

I think that's part of it. I'm a 90s dude so maybe I'm an anomaly. The dude I mentioned who has tons of student debt is almost 40 so it's not just my generation and the younger gens. He also didn't get any help from his parents. He's just terrible with money. I think people have just been really bad with finances for generations. Maybe since credit cards were invented and you could wrack up debt and get whatever you want even if you don't have the money to pay for it right now. 

The instant culture doesn't help either. People want stuff now and can get it immediately. We're all very much in a now mindset. To me, the future is just as, if not more important when it comes to finances. 

[Estil | 1,291]

Oh geez, just to give you guys an idea of just how out of control fake racism has become...

 

[Strange | 1,727]

That video is nonsense. No one who cares about racism cares about things like cow’s milk. It’s manufactured outrage by people who want to delegitimize the movement. It’s the same reason you see “LibTARDS want to get rid of A Christmas Story and Santa!!!!!” every December on Facebook. These things aren’t even close to being a mainstream liberal viewpoint, it’s manufactured to trick gullible people and sway them into thinking “the other side” is crazy.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

1 hour ago, Makar said:

He also didn't get any help from his parents. He's just terrible with money. I think people have just been really bad with finances for generations. Maybe since credit cards were invented and you could wrack up debt and get whatever you want even if you don't have the money to pay for it right now. 

Heh - my father was the perfect example of how not to do things. My mother was good at managing what little money she had - especially when it came to hiding it from my father.

I also had the decided advantage of not having easy access to credit when I first entered the workforce (no one did back then) soI Iearned by default the advantages of just living on what you had coming in each pay period.

[Makar | 2,062]

4 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Heh - my father was the perfect example of how not to do things. My mother was good at managing what little money she had - especially when it came to hiding it from my father.

I also had the decided advantage of not having easy access to credit when I first entered the workforce (no one did back then) soI Iearned by default the advantages of just living on what you had coming in each pay period.

That's still how I live. I think it's pretty smart to do that. Don't live beyond your means, and save some money each paycheck. Otherwise you'll be hurting big time down the road. And if you want to have kids, you really should think about their future and how you can help them avoid as much debt as possible before they start their adult life. 

I think you can do pretty well in life even without a nice salary. A lot of it is about your spending habits and how you manage your money. You can do just as well with a 40k salary if you're responsible, as someone with an 80k salary who is terrible with their money.

[Tulpa | 3,703]

4 hours ago, Estil said:

Oh geez, just to give you guys an idea of just how out of control fake racism has become...

 

You really fall for these things hook, line and sinker, don't you?

[cartman | 195]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

You really fall for these things hook, line and sinker, don't you?

Except you denounced a cartoon character as offensive on the grounds of how he sounds and who voices him so you can't really delegitimize these bullshit issues about everything being racist.

[Tulpa | 3,703]

*yawn*