General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Strange | 1,727]

Yeah, I’m really hoping the one of Nathan Bedford Forrest gets taken down here in Nashville. It’s been requested to have taken down for years. Since no one wants to oblige, some have taken to defacing it. Just take the damn thing down already, it isn’t even a well made or aesthetically pleasing statue.

Edited June 4, 2020 by The Strangest

[Estil | 1,291]

1 hour ago, The Strangest said:

Yeah, I’m really hoping the one of Nathan Bedford Forrest gets taken down here in Nashville. It’s been requested to have taken down for years. Since no one wants to oblige, some have taken to defacing it. Just take the damn thing down already, it isn’t even a well made or aesthetically pleasing statue.

Oh please tell me that's photoshopped!  *shudders*

[Estil | 1,291]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

A side note, happy to see some confederate statues being taken down, its about damn time. Looking forward to the point in history when anything confederate related is relegated to a terrible dark spot in American History Books.  
 

Nothing should be named after someone who fought a war to keep humans as property. 

I know it can be easy and tempting to want to cast figures and groups in history as heroes and villains and right or wrong side of history and all that...but in most cases its way more complicated than that (like the saying goes, there are at least two sides to every story; very often many of them).  For example, people want to cast the Confederates/southerners as the "bad guys" (even the Duke Boys, Alabama (the band), Hank Williams Jr, and so on?  ) and say, Native Americans as the "good guys" in the history books.  What if I was to tell you that some Indians/tribes not only did in fact fight for the Confederacy but some also owned slaves?

And I have no issue with the statues (we do have a fairly iconic one in my own town...though if it was ever removed I'm not sure most would even notice/care) being taken down at all (especially considering, believe it or not, most of those statues were done well after the Civil War was over and most Civil War vets back in the day did NOT want them)...provided it's done the right and legal way through voting, petitioning, letters to the local newspaper, and such.  We do NOT want to "reward' those who are trying to deface/destroy them and otherwise trying to take that kind of thing into their own hands. 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

1 hour ago, The Strangest said:

Yeah, I’m really hoping the one of Nathan Bedford Forrest gets taken down here in Nashville. It’s been requested to have taken down for years. Since no one wants to oblige, some have taken to defacing it. Just take the damn thing down already, it isn’t even a well made or aesthetically pleasing statue.

That is hilariously terrible wow. 
 

@arch_8ngel how far are you from richmond? Is the lee statue a big deal or does the majority agree with it being removed. 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

13 minutes ago, Estil said:

I know it can be easy and tempting to want to cast figures and groups in history as heroes and villains and right or wrong side of history and all that...but in most cases its way more complicated than that (like the saying goes, there are at least two sides to every story; very often many of them).  For example, people want to cast the Confederates/southerners as the "bad guys" (even the Duke Boys, Alabama (the band), Hank Williams Jr, and so on?  ) and say, Native Americans as the "good guys" in the history books.  What if I was to tell you that some Indians/tribes not only did in fact fight for the Confederacy but some also owned slaves?

And I have no issue with the statues (we do have a fairly iconic one in my own town...though if it was ever removed I'm not sure most would even notice/care) being taken down at all (especially considering, believe it or not, most of those statues were done well after the Civil War was over and most Civil War vets back in the day did NOT want them)...provided it's done the right and legal way through voting, petitioning, letters to the local newspaper, and such.  We do NOT want to "reward' those who are trying to deface/destroy them and otherwise trying to take that kind of thing into their own hands. 

I agree. I would rather people be active in the removal with petitions/votes etc than have them tore down in a riot. 
 

And when it comes to the civil war, my opinion is its Pretty clear who the good guys and bad guys were. 

[Estil | 1,291]

40 minutes ago, ChickenTendas4PokeyEater said:

I usually try to remain neutral, especially when I'm posting on a forum that's new to me, but our country is fucking hell right now. Trump's presidency has been 3.5 hours of fuck ups and yet his base still supports him. He must feel like he's on top of the world right now. He could literally take a shit on the stage during a speech and his supporters would cheer him off the stage. He has millions hoodwinked into thinking he's some kind of god, and I've heard way too many people claim that he's "the best thing to ever happen to America." Like people love him, they decorate their houses with "Trump 2020" and "Keep America Great" signs and a bunch of other, just weird stuff. Never before have I seen this cult-like presence of a political campaign in the US. You never see people decorating their houses with Ronald Reagan shit and Obama shit (at least not to the same level), so why is this any different?

Oh trust me, Obama supporters could be just as if not more fanboy/girl like as Trump supporters.  And you think hatred towards Trump is bad?  Honestly, the hatred towards Bush was just as bad if not worse.  I will say, do you remember when people were rioting/burning/breaking stuff over their preferred candidate (Hillary) losing?  I have never seen supporters of any other losing Presidential candidate act anything like that.

And you and the rest of the anti-Trump echo chamber here want to know how "his base could still support him"?  Because they clearly see the other side as having nothing but hatred and contempt for them.  Not Trump himself mind you, but his supporters.  Which BTW, Biden (or any other D challenger) WILL need to win some of them back in the swing states if they are to have any chance of making Trump an embarrassing "one termer".  I would say the South Park episode "Doubling Down" illustrates this perfectly.  Sorry I can't find the video clip so you'll have to settle for the transcript:

https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Doubling_Down

Molly	Guys, I just wanna say, here's to Heidi. Welcome back to the land of the living.
The other girls	Yay Heidi!
Heidi	[giggles] Thanks, guys. Thanks for taking me out. This is really fun.
Red	No worries. We're just glad you finally came to your senses.
Annie	Yeah, no kidding. We seriously thought you might marry that piece of shit! [the girls laugh]
Heidi	[a bit sheepish] Well, you know, he- he actually had some good qualities too.
Red	Uhh, yeah, like what? Racism?
Bebe	Or the sociopath part?
Courtney	Yeah. I mean, no offense, Heidi, but what the fuck were you thinking?
Lola	Guys, she admitted she made a mistake.
Molly	You make a mistake on your homework. What Heidi did was more like a momentary loss of all sanity.[the girls laugh]
Heidi	[feeling pushed away again] It was just what I believed in.
Bebe	Don't worry, Heidi. We're not gonna keep telling you we told you so.
Lola	But we told you so. [the girls laugh]
Bebe	The only thing I wanna know is... how did you bring yourself to actually KISS him?
The girls	Eewwww!
Red	Can you imagine? Eric Cartman's breath on your mouth?
The girls	Ew, ugh! [this is depressing Heidi as sad music begins to play]
Courtney	[imitating Cartman] Heidi, come here. I want to kiss you with my tongue!
The girls	Ew, ugh! [they laugh as Heidi wilts]

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

7 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

That is hilariously terrible wow. 
 

@arch_8ngel how far are you from richmond? Is the lee statue a big deal or does the majority agree with it being removed. 

I'm about 60 - 70 miles from that statue, though Lee's old homestead is a lot closer to my area.

I don't personally move in any circles that care too much about "saving" confederate statues -- more like most of the people I know are happy to be rid of them, or think at best they should be in a museum somewhere.

Though my neighborhood does have a small confederate burial ground of locals and there USED TO BE a little parade for them every year (and you got to pick out the local racists by seeing who filled their yard with the most mini confederate flags).  But a few years back the city instituted a permit requirement for parades and managed to successfully refuse permitting these guys and they eventually gave up.

So I'm sure there are plenty of locals upset by it - I just don't know them personally.

[Estil | 1,291]

13 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I agree.

Wow, how often does that happen?   Well on political sorts of stuff I mean.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Estil

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

4 minutes ago, Estil said:

Wow, how often does that happen?  

True - We both like Cats too Though (And video games) Probably would agree on more things outside of politics too.

 

And for the record, I can be convinced of anything, as long as one shows me proof. 

[Strange | 1,727]

43 minutes ago, Estil said:

Oh please tell me that's photoshopped!  *shudders*

It sure isn’t. Like that’s the thing, it’s not even a good looking statue even if you were in support of keeping it up. It’s an eyesore and an embarrassment to our city even when you ignore the politics and history entirely.

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

18 minutes ago, Estil said:

Oh trust me, Obama supporters could be just as if not more fanboy/girl like as Trump supporters.  And you think hatred towards Trump is bad?  Honestly, the hatred towards Bush was just as bad if not worse.  I will say, do you remember when people were rioting/burning/breaking stuff over their preferred candidate (Hillary) losing?  I have never seen supporters of any other losing Presidential candidate act anything like that.

And you and the rest of the anti-Trump echo chamber here want to know how "his base could still support him"?  Because they clearly see the other side as having nothing but hatred and contempt for them.  Not Trump himself mind you, but his supporters.  Which BTW, Biden (or any other D challenger) WILL need to win some of them back in the swing states if they are to have any chance of making Trump an embarrassing "one termer".  I would say the South Park episode "Doubling Down" illustrates this perfectly.  Sorry I can't find the video clip so you'll have to settle for the transcript:

https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Doubling_Down

Molly	Guys, I just wanna say, here's to Heidi. Welcome back to the land of the living.
The other girls	Yay Heidi!
Heidi	[giggles] Thanks, guys. Thanks for taking me out. This is really fun.
Red	No worries. We're just glad you finally came to your senses.
Annie	Yeah, no kidding. We seriously thought you might marry that piece of shit! [the girls laugh]
Heidi	[a bit sheepish] Well, you know, he- he actually had some good qualities too.
Red	Uhh, yeah, like what? Racism?
Bebe	Or the sociopath part?
Courtney	Yeah. I mean, no offense, Heidi, but what the fuck were you thinking?
Lola	Guys, she admitted she made a mistake.
Molly	You make a mistake on your homework. What Heidi did was more like a momentary loss of all sanity.[the girls laugh]
Heidi	[feeling pushed away again] It was just what I believed in.
Bebe	Don't worry, Heidi. We're not gonna keep telling you we told you so.
Lola	But we told you so. [the girls laugh]
Bebe	The only thing I wanna know is... how did you bring yourself to actually KISS him?
The girls	Eewwww!
Red	Can you imagine? Eric Cartman's breath on your mouth?
The girls	Ew, ugh! [this is depressing Heidi as sad music begins to play]
Courtney	[imitating Cartman] Heidi, come here. I want to kiss you with my tongue!
The girls	Ew, ugh! [they laugh as Heidi wilts]

That is 100% force fed fox news bullshit. Far more people hate Trump for his policies, rhetoric and corruption than actively hate his base. 
 

its an easy way for Trump to solidify his small group of supporters by fear, and it absolutely works. All they do is scream in your face about how costal elites hate you and want to turn your local church into a baby sex-change drive through. 
 

Republicans have been doing it for a long time, Trump just screams it in your face and calls you fake news if you call him on it.

Ever wonder why the least educated, un healthiest and most reliant on public safety nets are states in the south?

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/the-healthiest-and-unhealthiest-states-in-america-ranked-2018-12%3famp

 

One day people will see how that type of conservatism has failed them.  

 

 

 

[Strange | 1,727]

15 minutes ago, Estil said:

Oh trust me, Obama supporters could be just as if not more fanboy/girl like as Trump supporters.  And you think hatred towards Trump is bad?  Honestly, the hatred towards Bush was just as bad if not worse.  I will say, do you remember when people were rioting/burning/breaking stuff over their preferred candidate (Hillary) losing?  I have never seen supporters of any other losing Presidential candidate act anything like that.

And you and the rest of the anti-Trump echo chamber here want to know how "his base could still support him"?  Because they clearly see the other side as having nothing but hatred and contempt for them.  Not Trump himself mind you, but his supporters.  Which BTW, Biden (or any other D challenger) WILL need to win some of them back in the swing states if they are to have any chance of making Trump an embarrassing "one termer".  I would say the South Park episode "Doubling Down" illustrates this perfectly.  Sorry I can't find the video clip so you'll have to settle for the transcript:

https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Doubling_Down

Molly	Guys, I just wanna say, here's to Heidi. Welcome back to the land of the living.
The other girls	Yay Heidi!
Heidi	[giggles] Thanks, guys. Thanks for taking me out. This is really fun.
Red	No worries. We're just glad you finally came to your senses.
Annie	Yeah, no kidding. We seriously thought you might marry that piece of shit! [the girls laugh]
Heidi	[a bit sheepish] Well, you know, he- he actually had some good qualities too.
Red	Uhh, yeah, like what? Racism?
Bebe	Or the sociopath part?
Courtney	Yeah. I mean, no offense, Heidi, but what the fuck were you thinking?
Lola	Guys, she admitted she made a mistake.
Molly	You make a mistake on your homework. What Heidi did was more like a momentary loss of all sanity.[the girls laugh]
Heidi	[feeling pushed away again] It was just what I believed in.
Bebe	Don't worry, Heidi. We're not gonna keep telling you we told you so.
Lola	But we told you so. [the girls laugh]
Bebe	The only thing I wanna know is... how did you bring yourself to actually KISS him?
The girls	Eewwww!
Red	Can you imagine? Eric Cartman's breath on your mouth?
The girls	Ew, ugh! [this is depressing Heidi as sad music begins to play]
Courtney	[imitating Cartman] Heidi, come here. I want to kiss you with my tongue!
The girls	Ew, ugh! [they laugh as Heidi wilts]

I’ve said it a few times before, but I think the extreme Trump cultists (not suggesting all Republicans are this) are a loud minority and that this election (like all elections) will be decided by who wins over the “middle ground” voters across the swing states. It’s really a matter of “are they satisfied with what they’ve gotten” when taking political brand identity out of the equation. 

I’m a big South Park fan, but I’m not sure the Heidi here exists. There are Trump fans who voted him in and will never turn their backs no matter what. But the ones whose votes matter weren’t all that married to him to begin with, I don’t think. Just persuaded by a bad candidate in Hillary and the chance for a shakeup with an unorthodox candidate like Trump.

There’s another episode (same one or one very close to it) where all of the Trump (Garrison) voters in South Park look at the TV in shame as they see what they voted for and got out of it. South Park has been historically center-right leaning (although their views have come left in the later seasons) so to have them go hard against someone like this is huge for them.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,013]

18 hours ago, Estil said:

And you and the rest of the anti-Trump echo chamber here

It didn't used to be an echo chamber, but a lot of his supporters around here have been ever so silent lately.... 

Edited June 5, 2020 by CodysGameRoom

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

To add-

 

The worst Trumpers are the ones who are aggressively in your face with big stupid flags and the need to feel like you are Jamming your opinion down everyones throat. 
 

If you want to exercise your right to free speech be my guest- just dont be surprised when people make fun of you or choose not to do business with you because of it. 
 

That and the supporters who blindly believe every single lie and call facts “fake news”

[Tulpa | 3,704]

53 minutes ago, Estil said:

 (especially considering, believe it or not, most of those statues were done well after the Civil War was over and most Civil War vets back in the day did NOT want them)...

They were specifically done to stick it to the African American communities during the Jim Crow era. Which is why a lot of them are badly done and look ridiculous. They were hastily thrown up and most are hollow scrap metal.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

56 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

 

And when it comes to the civil war, my opinion is its Pretty clear who the good guys and bad guys were. 

It wasn't always that clear cut. 

During the 1863 New York Draft riots blacks, abolitionists, government officials, businesses that blacks used (and their owners) wealthy people and sundry other folks were targetted by the rioters. The rioters objected to the draft because they feared emancipated blacks would take their jobs* and also because they objected to the fact that wealthy people could literally buy their way out of the draft.  (I suspect that many also didn't want to become the disposable  cannon fodder that incompetent Union commanders needed in their battles.) 

One of the  targets was a black orphanage which was thoroughly looted and then was burned to the ground.  The offical figure of the number killed was 119 - although the number was likely much higher.  How many were black is unknown but was likely a fairly high percentage.

As good as the movie "Gangs of New York" was they glossed over this aspect in the rather abrupt (and very out of place) ending with the Union warshops shelling the city.

*There had been a violent protest by white laborers earlier in the year by dockworkers protesting the hiring of black dockworkers by some companies.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

And people should consider this-if you bowdlerize/purge the history of the Confederacy too much the war will lose most of its meaning**.  Already strategy games have been being purged of using Confederate flags/symbols for the appropriate unit.  On that level the flags/symbols serve only to designate units, hqs,. etc. And they have been purged (in some cases ) from artwork - it is kind of hard IMHO to have a historically accurate portrayal of a battle (be it a painting or a movie) without there being Confederate flags of one stripe (as it were) or another involved somewhere =I am pretty sure they were actually there.  I was looking at   some tubes of Safari toy soldiers at a Michaels awhile back - there were tubes of blue and of grey civil war soldiers.  Both had little flags but the Confederate flag had been replaced by a Union one.   Other than the famous Galvanized Yankees I did not until then realize that the Confederates were actually fighting for the Union. 

**Already there is more than a little confusion in popular  knowledge between the economics, politics, slavery and states' rights in terms of the precedence/causes regarding  events leading to the civil war.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Tabonga

[Tulpa | 3,704]

46 minutes ago, Estil said:

 

And you and the rest of the anti-Trump echo chamber here want to know how "his base could still support him"?  Because they clearly see the other side as having nothing but hatred and contempt for them.  Not Trump himself mind you, but his supporters.  Which BTW, Biden (or any other D challenger) WILL need to win some of them back in the swing states if they are to have any chance of making Trump an embarrassing "one termer".

Actually, what Biden needs is the independents and Republicans who either decided to give Trump a chance in 2016 (and ended up regretting it) and the ones who didn't want to vote for Hilary (understandable) but who will vote for him (Biden) as he has nowhere near the baggage she has.

Trump's efforts were to shore up his hardcore supporters, the ones that would vote for him in 2020 no matter what, because that's who he wants to attend rallies and cheer for him. He's done nothing to attract back the above groups.

He was also hoping that a good economy would carry him. Oops, that's not happening. Plus, his reaction over the George Floyd situation has just been utterly appalling.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Tulpa

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

That is 100% force fed fox news bullshit. Far more people hate Trump for his policies, rhetoric and corruption than actively hate his base. 
 

its an easy way for Trump to solidify his small group of supporters by fear, and it absolutely works. All they do is scream in your face about how costal elites hate you and want to turn your local church into a baby sex-change drive through. 
 

Republicans have been doing it for a long time, Trump just screams it in your face and calls you fake news if you call him on it.

Ever wonder why the least educated, un healthiest and most reliant on public safety nets are states in the south?

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/the-healthiest-and-unhealthiest-states-in-america-ranked-2018-12%3famp

 

One day people will see how that type of conservatism has failed them.  

 

 

 

Heres a perfect example from Brad Parscale (sp?) Trumps campaign manager 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/snapchat-donald-trump-promotions-2020-campaign-election-1508628

 

Parscale said: "Snapchat is trying to rig the 2020 election, illegally using their corporate funding to promote Joe Biden and suppress President Trump. Radical Snapchat CEO Evan Spiegel would rather promote extreme left riot videos and encourage their users to destroy America than share the positive words of unity, justice, and law and order from our President. Snapchat hates that so many of their users watch the President's content and so they are actively engaging in voter suppression.

If you're a conservative, they do not want to hear from you, they do not want you to vote. They view you as a deplorable and they do not want you to exist on their platform“

 

Read that statement. FEAR FEAR FEAR

TL:DR

SNAPCHT HATES THAT USERS ARE MAKING THEM MONEY BECAUSE LIBERALS BAD

IF YOU DO NOTE VOTE FOR LORD KING TRUMP DEMOCRATS WILL RAPE YOUR PUPPIES AND SHIT IN THE PAGES OF YOUR BIBLE

 

Not to mention the Absurd idea that conservative voices are censored on social media, when its been proven that right- related content gets far more views, which sells more ads - even if bad actors are involved  

 

 

Oh- and Trump comitted felony voting fraud

 

 

 

[NESfiend | 1,556]

Ok here is my not so bold prediction. I am a moderate Democrat who like a lot of people here is surprised every day that trump can possibly do more damage than the day before. Ill confess I stole a good deal of this from a friend I make long term political bets with and he's generally pretty on, albeit somewhat paranoid. I got some decent Biden cash coming because he was so scared they'd go too far left. 

Trump narrowly loses the election. Calls it rigged/fake and refuses to leave the white house. All those crazies that went to Michigan state house and senate with guns ×50 show up and surround white house armed big time and ready for war. Military gets involved, but not fast enough. Chaos ensues nation wide far worse than the riots because both sides will be fighting each other. By the time its over, between that and the virus, it will be too broken for the dems to succeed and get the economy back. Just as it starts to turn, we lose the next one

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

13 minutes ago, NESfiend said:

Ok here is my not so bold prediction. I am a moderate Democrat who like a lot of people here is surprised every day that trump can possibly do more damage than the day before. Ill confess I stole a good deal of this from a friend I make long term political bets with and he's generally pretty on, albeit somewhat paranoid. I got some decent Biden cash coming because he was so scared they'd go too far left. 

Trump narrowly loses the election. Calls it rigged/fake and refuses to leave the white house. All those crazies that went to Michigan state house and senate with guns ×50 show up and surround white house armed big time and ready for war. Military gets involved, but not fast enough. Chaos ensues nation wide far worse than the riots because both sides will be fighting each other. By the time its over, between that and the virus, it will be too broken for the dems to succeed and get the economy back. Just as it starts to turn, we lose the next one

I applaud your imagination. 

[Strange | 1,727]

Tennessee Court rules to allow voting by mail. Bunker Boy won’t be happy. He always talks so highly of Tennessee. Hopefully he’ll take it it personally and stop coming to Nashville (which I don’t understand, as everyone here hates him). If he wants to still visit Tennessee he can have his rallies in a city that wants him, like Knoxville.

[NESfiend | 1,556]

35 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

I applaud your imagination. 

Lol yeah I took it to the extreme. But I would bet money on him losing and refusing to hand over power. He wouldn't really commit to a peaceful transition of power if he loses in interviews early on in his presidency. If he loses and a single vote is mailed in in a state he loses, he will say its fake/rigged. He won't leave until a thorough investigation he ordered is complete. Those militia people will show up. I took it to the extreme from there, but I really don't think its at all crazy to that point. Did you ever imagine the president tweeting that black protestors who engage in looting will be shot on site? Or any of the other unimaginable things you've seen in 3.5 years?

Edited June 5, 2020 by NESfiend

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,042]

Rumor has it that the rioters/ looters are moving to the suburbs this weekend. Looking to "burn them down". 

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

1 hour ago, The Strangest said:

Tennessee Court rules to allow voting by mail. Bunker Boy won’t be happy. He always talks so highly of Tennessee. Hopefully he’ll take it it personally and stop coming to Nashville (which I don’t understand, as everyone here hates him). If he wants to still visit Tennessee he can have his rallies in a city that wants him, like Knoxville.

I saw the Bunker Boy memes, thats a pretty clever nickname also #Bunkerbitch

[Reed Rothchild | 9,918]

10 hours ago, ChickenTendas4PokeyEater said:

I usually try to remain neutral, especially when I'm posting on a forum that's new to me, but our country is fucking hell right now. Trump's presidency has been 3.5 hours of fuck ups and yet his base still supports him. He must feel like he's on top of the world right now. He could literally take a shit on the stage during a speech and his supporters would cheer him off the stage. He has millions hoodwinked into thinking he's some kind of god, and I've heard way too many people claim that he's "the best thing to ever happen to America." Like people love him, they decorate their houses with "Trump 2020" and "Keep America Great" signs and a bunch of other, just weird stuff. Never before have I seen this cult-like presence of a political campaign in the US. You never see people decorating their houses with Ronald Reagan shit and Obama shit (at least not to the same level), so why is this any different?

Increasing partisanship/polarization/tribalization, and Trump's ability to endlessly pander to such sentiments.

At this point it's win at all costs, never concede, the other side is the enemy to be defeated.  Entrench, entrench, entrench on all positions always. 

Both sides do it pretty badly nowadays, but Trump's endless tomfoolery and embarrassments have really made his base work for it.  Like, whipped into a frenzy over the "mentally ill" libs that he blames for everything.  I mean, look at Estil's posts.  Every single one is basically "but the Democrats" or some other rationalization. 

Or look at the riots and pandemic and how both sides are basically convinced that the other is 100% wrong.  It's totally fucked and I shudder to think what it will be like in ten years.