Deadeye | 1,601 Homebrew Team · Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 The articles I read, along with the quotes from the council, did not call for no police. It called for the disbanding of the MPD, as in their was no hope for internal reform of it. We will have to see what the plans ended up being and what the non-enforcement services will be switched to. However, it is pointing to what Camden NJ did. They disbanded their local police department, switched to county police, and instituted reforms for training, de-escalation, and when to use force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,491 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, Estil said: I never thought I'd live to see the day where we might have BOTH "red flight" (R's leaving) and "blue flight" (officers or pro-police types leaving) at the same time!!! Never thought I'd ever have an erection thinking about the Republicans and police (leaving) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, arch_8ngel said: Pretty sure the NRA advertisement was always to the effect of "when you have seconds to act, the police are minutes away"... This is what happens with two extremes instead of meeting in the middle. No matter which side gets their way, you end up with something crazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Deadeye said: The articles I read, along with the quotes from the council, did not call for no police. It called for the disbanding of the MPD, as in their was no hope for internal reform of it. We will have to see what the plans ended up being and what the non-enforcement services will be switched to. However, it is pointing to what Camden NJ did. They disbanded their local police department, switched to county police, and instituted reforms for training, de-escalation, and when to use force. So in that sense it's not all that much different from when Trump campaigned on "repeal and replace Obamacare"? Fine, then they just better make VERY sure that what they replace with WILL in fact be an improvement or at least break even with what we had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Californication said: Never thought I'd ever have an erection thinking about the Republicans and police (leaving) Just be sure to seek immediate medical help if it lasts more than four hours! Sorry I couldn't resist... Edited June 9, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,491 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Californication said: So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californication | 1,491 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Estil said: Just be sure to seek immediate medical help if it lasts more than four hours! Sorry I couldn't resist... It might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Californication said: So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race? I'd say having police that do what they are supposed to, but they can't seem to find a middle ground with that so I can honestly see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Californication said: So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race? Well to paraphrase a certain someone's 35 Undeninable Truths of Life, the police need to obey and uphold the law and regulations, and to punish and fire and if need be imprison the ones who do not. Also most officers don't in fact "police people differently based on race"...but obviously it doesn't take very many to make it seem like it. Most people DO want reform of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Honestly it's like one side wants average citizens to be able to carry assault rifles and the other side wants total lawlessness, so it's no wonder things are a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Californication said: It might. Listen, I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of the political stuff but I never want to see anyone get physically hurt, especially if it concerns the most important part of a man's body. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,260 Administrator · Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Estil said: Listen, I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of the political stuff but I never want to see anyone get physically hurt, especially if it concerns the most important part of a man's body. Ah yes, the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Gloves said: Ah yes, the brain. Is that still a thing? Honestly, I can't tell anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A. | 1,141 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Deadeye said: The articles I read, along with the quotes from the council, did not call for no police. It called for the disbanding of the MPD, as in their was no hope for internal reform of it. We will have to see what the plans ended up being and what the non-enforcement services will be switched to. However, it is pointing to what Camden NJ did. They disbanded their local police department, switched to county police, and instituted reforms for training, de-escalation, and when to use force. Do a google search of Lisa Bender, the president of the Minneapolis city council. She is absolutely proposing a police free future. Though she seems to admit it will take awhile. They don't have plans, just nebulous statements like "transformative new model of public safety" "community based strategies". Hennepin county isn't going to pay to police Minneapolis just because Minneapolis doesn't feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Bearcat-Doug said: Honestly it's like one side wants average citizens to be able to carry assault rifles and the other side wants total lawlessness, so it's no wonder things are a mess. Again, as I've already mentioned, I do not know of ANY situation where going to one extreme and/or trying to solve the problem of one extreme by swinging over to the opposite extreme has ever worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gloves said: Ah yes, the brain. *smacks forehead* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,260 Administrator · Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Estil said: *smacks forehead* Don't do that, that's where your precious brain is stored you fool! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Estil said: Again, as I've already mentioned, I do not know of ANY situation where going to one extreme and/or trying to solve the problem of one extreme by swinging over to the opposite extreme has ever worked out. Yet something that obvious doesn't seem to get considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Hill | 284 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Californication said: So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race? For starters, let's remove the section of the police handbook that describes how to be racist. /s In all seriousness, Qualified Immunity should be looked into first and when these situations happen (they always will as long as they're human) the officers involved need to be held accountable ASAP. From there, budgets could be reallocated to focus on a more rigorous recruitment process, including plenty of mental health screenings/exercises. Mental heath assessments should also be conducted every so often and shorty after any officer was involved in a highly toxic situation (ie. responding to dead bodies for the first few times, having to fire their gun, saving a life, etc. - the traumatic stuff). This is just off the top of my head and I don't know the ins and outs of police recruitment/long-term reviews. In a perfect world, no police would exist because no crime would exist. Since that will never happen, crime is just as much of a problem to look into (and I know it has been and always will be a hot topic) but someone earlier mentioned building a solid home with two parents and initiatives to decrease gang violence is a good start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gloves said: Don't do that, that's where your precious brain is stored you fool! Concussions are a thing. I just don't think there's a thread on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Bearcat-Doug said: Yet something that obvious doesn't seem to get considered. The trouble is though really complex problems like race relations and police conduct can't really be solved by simple catchphrases or any sort of "miracle reforms"...if they could it and all the other really sensitive issues in the world could've been solved decades ago. Trust me, there have been times on many situations I've been tempted to ask myself "Oh c'mon why don't they just..." but there probably is a good or at least an inevitable reason why we can't "just" do what seems like the easy solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat-Doug | 5,123 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Estil said: The trouble is though really complex problems like race relations and police conduct can't really be solved by simple catchphrases or any sort of "miracle reforms"...if they could it and all the other really sensitive issues in the world could've been solved decades ago. Trust me, there have been times on many situations I've been tempted to ask myself "Oh c'mon why don't they just..." but there probably is a good or at least an inevitable reason why we can't "just" do what seems like the easy solution. It just frustrates me as someone who doesn't affiliate with either side politically when the only two options that seem to be presented are to either militarize the citizens or totally do away with the law enforcement. I don't see how either one of those ends well. Edited June 9, 2020 by Bearcat-Doug 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estil | 1,291 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said: It just frustrates me as someone who doesn't affiliate with either side politically when the only two options that seem to be presented are to either militarize the citizens or totally do away with the law enforcement. I don't see how either one of those ends well. This what I mean by why I don't want to "box myself into a corner"...the ones in either side politically might be afraid that if they dissent/disagree too much with the "orthodoxy", they will get labeled as some sort of sellout/traitor or worse!! I might be overall on the balance sheet aligned with the R's (I was just a few years short of voting age back in the days of Wendell Ford and other blue dog conservative pro-lifeish D's) but I would be run out of town in my local area for example if they knew I voted against the one man/one woman amendment...in 2004. No really, *shrugs shoulders* I just didn't see at the time what the big deal was about gay couples/marriage (plus I figured if history clearly showed we were wrong to deny interracial marriage then we would probably be proven wrong about denying same sex marriage too). Plus I am very much in a Bible belt sort of area and I really don't think they'd like how I feel about some aspects of Christianity or organized religion in general. I would never be able to make it as any sort of elected official because sometimes your party or interest groups will expect you to vote their way...or else. Edited June 9, 2020 by Estil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 12,260 Administrator · Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said: It just frustrates me as someone who doesn't affiliate with either side politically when the only two options that seem to be presented are to either militarize the citizens or totally do away with the law enforcement. I don't see how either one of those ends well. Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/what-is-defund-police-trnd/index.html Defunding doesn't necessarily, in all cases, mean straight up removing the entire department wholesale. It's a spectrum that could be anywhere from that, to simply diverting much of the funds to social programs etc.. Personally I do believe that removing much to nearly all of the power from police, and/or requiring far more rigorous requirements for hiring, will go a long way. The fact is simply that what exists does not work. You're not supposed to be afraid of these people as a normal law abiding citizen. Nobody should have the ability to do any of the things we've seen come to light recently with total immunity from the law that they are supposed to be upholding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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