General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Silent Hill | 284]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/what-is-defund-police-trnd/index.html

Defunding doesn't necessarily, in all cases, mean straight up removing the entire department wholesale. It's a spectrum that could be anywhere from that, to simply diverting much of the funds to social programs etc.. 

Personally I do believe that removing much to nearly all of the power from police, and/or requiring far more rigorous requirements for hiring, will go a long way. 

The fact is simply that what exists does not work. You're not supposed to be afraid of these people as a normal law abiding citizen. 

Nobody should have the ability to do any of the things we've seen come to light recently with total immunity from the law that they are supposed to be upholding. 

Unfortunately, "perception is reality" for a lot of people as I don't think the level of fear accurately reflects the reality/likelihood.

There still needs to be a level of respect (thinly separated from fear) in place otherwise there will be a lot more unneeded confrontation. You already see this with videos of wannabe lawyers arguing their rights with police, intentionally escalating the situation.

If you've got people not having respect for or even thinking police are a bunch of "pussies", that's going to spell disaster sooner or later. 

 

[Link | 2,880]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

You mean no more (as we had back in my day) Officer Friendly, no DARE officer, no McGruff??  Dude, weak.    

Now as far the whole metal detectors and officers patrolling the school hallways OTOH, yeah I'd rather we not treat our schools/students like prisoners thank you.  And we most definitely don't need to half ruin students' lives by throwing them in juvie over things that traditionally detention or demerits or writing "I will not do so and so a bunch of times" or in-house suspension would've handled just fine.

McGruff is a cartoon. DARE didn’t work at all. I’m all for Officer Friendly. I was referring to the current situation, which is as you describe in the second paragraph. 

[Estil | 1,291]

1 minute ago, Link said:

McGruff is a cartoon. DARE didn’t work at all. I’m all for Officer Friendly. I was referring to the current situation, which is as you describe in the second paragraph. 

Actually our Officer Friendly did a ventriloquist act with McGruff but I digress...

Do we even still have McGruff anymore?

[Tulpa | 3,715]

1 hour ago, Silent Hill said:

There still needs to be a level of respect (thinly separated from fear) in place otherwise there will be a lot more unneeded confrontation. You already see this with videos of wannabe lawyers arguing their rights with police, intentionally escalating the situation.

 

Oh, those sovereign citizen guys? I get the feeling the police can roll up with a tank, RPGs, and the Hulk in a police cap and they'd still be mouthy.

[cartman | 195]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/what-is-defund-police-trnd/index.html

Defunding doesn't necessarily, in all cases, mean straight up removing the entire department wholesale. It's a spectrum that could be anywhere from that, to simply diverting much of the funds to social programs etc.. 

Personally I do believe that removing much to nearly all of the power from police, and/or requiring far more rigorous requirements for hiring, will go a long way. 

The fact is simply that what exists does not work. You're not supposed to be afraid of these people as a normal law abiding citizen. 

Nobody should have the ability to do any of the things we've seen come to light recently with total immunity from the law that they are supposed to be upholding. 

But what does it mean? I read this but i never really got what they wanted it was all differeten theoretical rumblings but no practical solution.

Should social workers stop crimes? Or what should they be called upon to do?

It felt like some diffuse ideological dreaming and i left with no clue about what the goal was or how the proposed changes should reach it.

If corruption is the issue or that the police should train and operate differently then i'm hearing something tangible but what the fuck was being said in that article?

[Estil | 1,291]

11 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Oh, those sovereign citizen guys? I get the feeling the police can roll up with a tank, RPGs, and the Hulk in a police cap and they'd still be mouthy.

You know how some of you guys made clear your dislike for guys like Hannity and Tucker?  Honestly, among the major political commentators out there I've always thought of myself as a John Stossel sort of guy...I love his takes on consumer advocacy (one of my favorite issues) as well as his overall libertarianess (once again probably not a real word, so sue me).  Still I can't get behind libertarianism's more radical elements (such as no minimum wage or very little if any gov't assistance programs like food stamps, social security and the like; I know from personal experience you must have some of these) and especially this whole sovereign citizen thing.  Seriously those guys are beyond nuts.

And hey if the police wanna give me some RPGs I'll take them!  Oh, I take it you don't mean the video game kind of RPGs...  

Edited June 9, 2020 by Estil

[NESfiend | 1,559]

2 hours ago, Californication said:

So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race?

See my previous posts about it being completely funded and ran in municipalities. Even a state agency would be a big improvement. 

And defunding the police will likely worsen those problems. The low pay/high stress is a big reason why a lot of people who shouldn't have that type of responsibility end up getting it. Less money and resources will worsen that problem 

Appropriate prosecutions and convictions would also help. Also touches on locality issue. Most prosecutors are elected and the most important endorsement they can get is from local law enforcement. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by NESfiend

[Tulpa | 3,715]

3 minutes ago, Estil said:

You know how some of you guys made clear your dislike for guys like Hannity and Tucker?  Honestly, among the major political commentators out there I've always thought of myself as a John Stossel sort of guy...I love his takes on consumer advocacy (one of my favorite issues) as well as his overall libertarianess (once again probably not a real word, so sue me).  Still I can't get behind libertarianism's more radical elements (such as no minimum wage or very little if any gov't assistance programs like food stamps, social security and the like; I know from personal experience you must have some of these) and especially this whole sovereign citizen thing.  Seriously those guys are beyond nuts.

They're just looking to stir up trouble. They want the police to be confrontational. They want to get arrested. They want to get tased.

They probably don't want to get shot, but few if any ever do.

They want to bring a lawsuit against police, or forward an anti-state/anarchist agenda. Some people just want to watch the world burn (please don't post a Dark Knight video.)

Don't get me wrong, if they break the law, the police should cite and/or arrest them, but for other non-criminal stuff, like the first amendment audits some of them do, they're best ignored, even though they're annoying.

[Tabonga | 2,533]

WTF?

 

[Estil | 1,291]

1 hour ago, Tulpa said:

They're just looking to stir up trouble. They want the police to be confrontational. They want to get arrested. They want to get tased.

Eh maybe be for some but if you ask me most of them are just plain nuts  

[Link | 2,880]

3 hours ago, Estil said:

Well to paraphrase a certain someone's 35 Undeninable Truths of Life, the police need to obey and uphold the law and regulations, and to punish and fire and if need be imprison the ones who do not.

But they don’t. You don’t like the offered solution so what is yours? 

[Link | 2,880]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ny-state-police-union-boss-officers-treated-like-animals-and-thugs

This is a terrible response. Completely tone deaf.

[Tulpa | 3,715]

1 hour ago, Estil said:

Eh maybe be for some but if you ask me most of them are just plain nuts  

Never said it was a sane goal.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,931]

The leader of the free world...

[Strange | 1,728]

9 hours ago, Estil said:

While I do think having police using hand-me-down military stuff is beyond scary, is there anything else we can do with decommissioned military stuff that doesn't involved letting it go to waste?

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t know enough about retired military vehicles to give a good answer there. My “shot in the dark” guess would be recycling/scrapping of parts or potentially a museum exhibit for some pieces.

[Strange | 1,728]

8 hours ago, Gloves said:

Ah yes, the brain.

Which one?

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

The leader of the free world...

It only got 158k likes, thats pretty sorry. 

My favorite part is when they ask republican senators about it they act like they havent heard of twitter. 

 

  

[Tulpa | 3,715]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

 

My favorite part is when they ask republican senators about it they act like they havent heard of twitter. 
 

Yeah, you can tell that inwardly, their souls are dying, but they'll be damned if they admit anything. 

At least Romney had the balls to admit he saw it. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Tulpa

[cartman | 195]

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Yeah, you can tell that inwardly, their souls are dying, but they'll be damned if they admit anything. 

At least Romney had the balls to admit he saw it. 

That's how politics are you're expected to align yourself with people from your own tribe. If they sling shit at Trump the whole party might appear weak they figure.

[Kguillemette | 1,612]

14 hours ago, Californication said:

So for the people that aren't for "defunding the police," how do you suggest we get the police to stop: a. Murdering people, and b. Policimg people differently based on race?

Start by dismantling the whole ridiculous blue wall of never snitch on a fellow officer. Police unions probably are way too powerful and should be stripped a bit. It's too difficult with the systems in place for police to police themselves. Perhaps if police unions weren't footing the legal bill for crooked cops and giving them chances to avoid accountability? Then when reinstated, they get to make life miserable for the those who complained about them in the first place.

 

I think defunding will do poorly long term. If being a police officer was no longer a viable economic career choice, fewer would strive to do it. This will weed out the "good hard-working" cops and slowly lead to a collection of misfits because departments are desperate for bodies.

One quick brainstorm, perhaps a 3 strike policy from the police union? We will pay your legal bill twice after 2 complaints and after that you are on your own. I think having a stingier union is more effective than a less funded PD.  

[MrWunderful | 2,932]

3 hours ago, cartman said:

That's how politics are you're expected to align yourself with people from your own tribe. If they sling shit at Trump the whole party might appear weak they figure.

This Republican party will be talked about for years as gutless complacent sycophants, far more concerned about their political power than the constitution they swore to protect and uphold. 
 

They are hurting the parties future in a big way just to get conservative voices on the courts Now by tying themselves to Trumps wagon. 
 

And the irony is in the fact that a US senator Like despicable Turtle Mitch McConnell is pretending like they dont realize That Trump tweets And wont “comment” (because he claims he never does) but then will “comment” about what Obama said in a private conversation. 

[cartman | 195]

3 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

This Republican party will be talked about for years as gutless complacent sycophants, far more concerned about their political power than the constitution they swore to protect and uphold. 
 

They are hurting the parties future in a big way just to get conservative voices on the courts Now by tying themselves to Trumps wagon. 
 

And the irony is in the fact that a US senator Like despicable Turtle Mitch McConnell is pretending like they dont realize That Trump tweets And wont “comment” (because he claims he never does) but then will “comment” about what Obama said in a private conversation. 

Well Hillary Clinton was complacent with Bill's sexual scandals that's how politics are. There are countries and politicians that are allied to America that are shady but dimplomacy and national strategies and all that shit dictate how you're supposed to deal with that and you are not supposed to do it. They're schemers as the Joker would've said.

Yes it might be counterproductive and inconvenient with the lack of rhetorical finesse that Trump has having to defend him but that's a strategic problem in that case that they have on their hands the moral aspects of it isn't the game. The politician who condemn or send condolances around in different issues also have an image at stake that gains to profit you can't take these things at face value regardless.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

3 hours ago, Kguillemette said:

 

One quick brainstorm, perhaps a 3 strike policy from the police union? We will pay your legal bill twice after 2 complaints and after that you are on your own. I think having a stingier union is more effective than a less funded PD.  

The problem is that the police union isn't "footing the bill", it is ultimately the local taxpayers.

 Police need to be required to have some kind of professional liability insurance, that is tied to them INDIVIDUALLY to prevent the abomination of bad cops being "fired" from one city and getting rehired immediately in another town somewhere that doesn't care about their checkered past.

Make that liability insurance follow them, so that they are too expensive to rehire.

No "3 strikes" -- let actuaries do the real legwork on understanding all of the statistics with completely apolitical motivations.  They will tell you what the real "risks" are, in terms of how expensive someone is potentially going to be in the future.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,014]

16 hours ago, Estil said:

I've always thought of myself as a John Stossel sort of guy

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

18 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Well, both Estil and John Stossel did say wrestling was fake...