Can you separate the art from the artist?

[JamesRobot | 6,026]

To be clear, I am not advocating for MJ.

Did he do it? I don't fucking know.  Have the allegations tainted his image?  Absolutely they have or we wouldn't be arguing the point.

[Sir Centroid | 79]

Yes, I most certainly can and do.  It's why I still listen to Michael Jackson's music (I'm not getting into it with anyone, I don't know what is or isn't true), and am still willing to watch Disney Films. If you let your emotions rule you, then you're going to have a bad time on this planet. That is my own opinion, of course. However, if the art is a 1:1 representation of the person's sick mind, i.e. they're a pedophile and their art shows that one hundred percent, then it gets a big N O from me. In cases like that, I don't believe it to be about separating the art from the artist at that point, but rather, not enabling that kind of sick behavior.

The same goes for an artist that isn't a pedophile, but makes art that is pedophilic in nature, it still gets a big N O from me. This is something that obviously gets murky in some cases. But put simply, if some racist A-hole make a completely normal movie that they don't insert their racist views into, then I'll watch it, I don't care about the person behind it. But if their movie is filled to the brim with their racist views and tendencies, then I won't watch it, because I simply don't care for the topic or message of the movie itself, the same way someone may not care for horror movies or gore. 

Maybe the explanation wasn't necessary, but I felt the need to clarify, just in case someone decided to quote me to say "Hurr durr, that's the same as not separating someone from their art!", to which I say, I disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinions though.

 

Nice topic by the way, OP. It's definitely an interesting conversation starter.

[16BitBricks | 59]

Good question! I guess it depends. I refuse to watch anything with Jane Fonda or anyone who supports her. Same when I hear celebrities getting super woke and preaching to average people. 

I like MJ’s music but also think he was a creepy dude who was abused as a kid. Idk if he abused kids, but being found innocent doesn’t mean he didn’t do it (OJ Simpson for example).

Mike Tyson is another example. He was a womanizer and convicted rapist. Obviously a mentally unstable dude and not a good person. I enjoy his fights and the video game. When I found out Mel Gibson was removed from being in the Hangover 2 because the cast wouldn’t work with him, I had to roll my eyes. They had no problem working with Tyson in the first movie.

Ive learned to not follow celebrities on social media. It’s easier to separate the art from the artist and not be distracted by their stances on things. Sometimes though, it’s impossible to ignore and warranted.

[themisfit138 | 523]

The way I see it is. Most artist in any art form are terrible people. If you are offended by them you will never enjoy any art.  

[MeganJoanne | 365]

What I always say when my mom and I get to talking about stuff like actors and directors, singers and such, best thing to do, don't get too involved in their personal lives, just enjoy their movies, roles, songs, whatever and leave it at that, because really, most if you dig deep enough most will disaappoint in some way, after all, we are all merely flawed humans. I might look stuff up on wikipedia on a particular actor when or after watching a movie for instance, but that is just to satisfy an immediate curiosity, but I'm not going to dwell on any of it, just a bonus to accompany the movie, same with a particular singer or group or song, read up on them out of needing to know something more for what I enjoy of their works or mild curiosity and leave it at that.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,918]

It goes for really all public figures in some ways.

Like as a 49ers fan, our last two crushing Super Bowl losses were to teams featuring Ray Lewis and Tyreek Hill.  Which just opens up all sorts of questions about where priorities lie...

[DefaultGen | 5,723]

MJ is basically the reason I have to say I separate the art from the artist because MJ music is the bomb. I think the further removed the art is from the "problem" the easier it is. Like seeing Bill Cosby around Cosby Show actors, some of which accused him of rape, makes The Cosby Show pretty difficult to enjoy. The fact that Moonwalker the game is about MJ rescuing kids honestly makes it weirder for me to enjoy than listening to Bad.

[fcgamer | 5,005]

It really depends, but I'd say that generally, yes I think I can, especially if the times were different back in the person's day.

I find it quite frustrating when people try to paint others in a poor light for things they did 30 or 40 years prior, back before society deemed it to be unacceptable, and back when it was normal, something everyone did. It's a very strange way of viewing life, imo.

If the situation occurred in today's society though, then yeah, I'd feel differently on the matter.

So I just try to enjoy things for what they are, and perhaps analyse the creators dark spots and see how it influenced their works.

[Kguillemette | 1,606]

Needs option 4. It depends what the artist did and how involved they were. I'm not watching any more Cosby Show, ren and stimpy, or episodes of 7th Heaven ever again. Space Jam and Miramax movies get a pass, since I don't have to look at or listen to r Kelly or Harvey Weinstein for the entire time like I do with the aforementioned tv shows.

[Link | 2,878]

I’m another on “it depends”. Not sure why I can still listen to Michael Jackson and not the Casualties. I think Jorge Herrera was more predatory and Michael Jackson was more fucked in the head.

Last week I didn’t mind seeing Louis CK in Trumbo because he was playing a different person, but I’m kind of over the Cosby Show where Bill Cosby was sort of being himself. I also never want to see Louie again, because that’s also CK being himself. I always thought he was creepy in the Pamela storyline. 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,092]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:30 AM, themisfit138 said:

The way I see it is. Most artist in any art form are terrible people. If you are offended by them you will never enjoy any art.  

Pretty much this. Most people who end up famous are messed up one way or another. I'm willing to bet that most of the artists anyone here would enjoy, if really dug into, would have a whole bunch of skeletons in their closet that would cause most in polite society to gasp. The only difference is you haven't found out about most of them yet, or might not ever if they were good/lucky enough to have no evidence of it.

[mbd39 | 2,092]

Generally yes. I don't expect artists/performers to be great people or have the same political beliefs as me.

 

 

 

 

[mbd39 | 2,092]

Question for wrestling fans: Are you able to watch Chris Benoit matches? Is it still too soon?

 

[JamesRobot | 6,026]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:29 PM, mbd39 said:

Question for wrestling fans: Are you able to watch Chris Benoit matches? Is it still too soon?

 

That's a good one.  Benoit matches are great.  I'll watch them whenever I happen to come across them. 

On the other hand, I can't really watch the Cosby Show anymore and that show was some of my alltime favorites.

Both crimes are heinous but I couldn't really tell you why I can live with one performance and not the other.

Maybe it boils down to my expectations of their character.  Cosby was a father figure to America whereas Benoit was the Animal who attacked people with the Crippler Crossface and landed flying headbutts from the top rope. 

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 699]

Short Answer, yes.

When I read this thread title I immediately thought of the fallout from YouTuber ProJared (it infact just surpassed 1 year just a couple weeks ago that the drama took place). I still appreciate a lot of his videos and Dice Camera Action was arguably the best weekly D&D Live Stream Show only behind Critical Role. I know lots of people now that absolutely reject anything the guy has done or been a part of, and no denying what he did was, at best, creepy & sleezy as heck. But I've watched his some of videos since then and theyre fine. I enjoy his presentation and humour.

I'm generally of the opinion that an artist's work/content is worth considering, and encourage others to try and not have what they may have enjoyed previously tainted by what the person behind the artist did.

Edited June 18, 2020 by SpoonMan Abrams X

[SpoonMan Abrams X | 699]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:29 PM, mbd39 said:

Question for wrestling fans: Are you able to watch Chris Benoit matches? Is it still too soon?

 

One of the greatest in ring techs of all time. Had one of the best WrestleMania main events of all time. I'll gladly watch any of his matches, if for no other reason then the other performers involved.

Anyone not in the know should watch the Dark Side of the Ring episode on Benoit. Series is great but that episode in particular.

[themisfit138 | 523]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:29 PM, mbd39 said:

Question for wrestling fans: Are you able to watch Chris Benoit matches? Is it still too soon?

 

Yes, I still watch them. His WCW matches with the 4Horsemen are still enjoyable. 

[captmorgandrinker | 1,654]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:29 PM, mbd39 said:

Question for wrestling fans: Are you able to watch Chris Benoit matches? Is it still too soon?

 

Before I saw his "Dark Side of the Ring" documentary episode, no I couldn't.  

But now I can, and at least separate his work from the end of his life.   Still cringe any time I see him take a chair shot though.

For the original question, I think it depends on who/what it is.   I can't bring myself to enjoy any Lostprophets songs anymore.