SNES library vs. GBA library

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

46 minutes ago, Gloves said:

We're comparing car battle games to RTS now?

If you're comparing entire libraries you kinda have to.  Do Aria of Sorrow and Minnish Cap prop up GBA more than than Earthbound and Super Punch-Out prop up the SNES?

Is there more Pit Fighters and Race Drivin's than there is ETs and Mary Kate and Ashley Olsons?

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

Since I think this could be a fun thought exercise, I'm gonna go through the US GBA library and compile what I think the top 200 titles would be.  Then I'm gonna compare against what I know are the top 200 US SNES titles.

[Gloves | 12,265]

27 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Since I think this could be a fun thought exercise, I'm gonna go through the US GBA library and compile what I think the top 200 titles would be.  Then I'm gonna compare against what I know are the top 200 US SNES titles.

Not good enough. 

You're just gonna have to go play all the GBA games and get back to us. 

[Andy_Bogomil | 861]

I think if someone had a top 50-100 games for each console that would be enough to determine which has the better library... 80%+ of any console is either junk or there is a superior game on the console that nullifies the majority of titles in the same genre. 

My thoughts are summed up by the first two replies in the thread though. SNES >GBA because it has a lot of similar hits and SNES is a home console even if it was a gen or two before the GBA.

[Sumez | 3,156]

2 hours ago, Estil said:

How do you figure?  2001-2007 sounds like a pretty decent run to me.

The DS came out in 2004. The GBA lost major developer interest very shortly after that, with very little coming out outside of shitty movie license games and stuff like that. Even though Nintendo didn't officially admit it, the DS was quite obviously the successor to the GBA, and continued to get all the cool titles that would otherwise have appeared on GBA.

[Sumez | 3,156]

EDIT: VGS's double posting feature doesn't mesh too well with its no deleting posts feature.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Sumez

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

Alright, here are my final thoughts:

• I think if you just look at the US libraries, side-by-side with no regard to the SNES being the original home for a lot of the games, the GBA top 150 might have a slight edge on the SNES top 150.
  • Top SNES ports including Link to the Past, the DKC trilogy, Final Fantasy II/IV and III/VI, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island.
  • Top Genesis ports including Phantasy Star II and III, Shining Force, Sonic.
  • Top 8-bit ports including SMB 1-3, Zelda, Zelda II, Castlevania, Metroid, and Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy I and II.
  • Top PC ports including Doom, Doom II, Wolfenstein 3D.
  • Top-tier originals including Minnish Cap, the Castlevania trilogy, the Advance Wars, the Fire Emblems, Superstar Saga, Mario Golf, the Pokemon stuff, WairoWares, the Metroids, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Tactics Ogre, etc. 
  • Lesser-known ports of top 200 SNES games, including Blackthorne, Rock n Roll Racing, The Lost Vikings, R-Type III, Phalanx, and Final Fight.
  • Ports of top SFC games, including Mega Man and Bass and Tales of Phantasia.
  • There's a lot of other ports that are considerably worse on GBA, including Contra III, Super Ghouls n Ghosts, Earthworm Jim 1 and 2, etc.

 

• If we look at the entire libraries, the GBA library starts to seriously decline after the top 150, and falls off a cliff before the 300 mark
  • The vast majority of the GBA library is shovelware or stuff aimed at children.
  • I'd argue the 200-300 mark on SNES are still good, and the 300-400 ranks do have games that some people will like.
  • Less than half of the SNES library is comprised of stuff like bad platformers, no-name sports titles, or Amiga ports.

 

• If you include the Japanese libraries, the SNES/SFC library easily eclipses the GBA library. 
  • The top 150 now adds in Terranigma, Trials of Mana, the Famicom Wars, the Fire Emblems, Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy V, the Dragon Quests, Front Mission, Gun Hazard, the Super Bombermans, and on and on...

 

So, in conclusion, depending on how you want to look at it, and what you're gauging, the argument can go either way 

[Andy_Bogomil | 861]

^good post... 'laughing' at your conclusion.

I will say I was completely sold on the GBA SP when it came out. If it had included an X and Y it would have been the ultimate handheld imo. I pretty much wore through my original SP. As for the overall libraries I'd still say SNES is better especially if you consider the ports on the GBA to be a redundancy. No question some of the ports are better for the GBA though (ex. DOOM). There's also soming about playing DOOM II on the GB micro that I find absolutely hilarious and amazing at the same time.

[Splain | 2,705]

So much forgettable trash on GBA. It's awesome to see GBA get this much love, but if you selected a GBA game and a SNES game at random, chances are the SNES game would be better. There was a guy on reddit many years ago who wanted to start a paid subscription service where he mails you a random GBA game every month. Nobody showed any interest, because we all knew we weren't going to get cool RPG's or 16-bit ports. We were going to get Barbie horse games. Same with the Wii. If a friend said "hey, do you want to play a Wii game, randomly selected from the whole library?" The correct answer to that question is "no."

When a movie studio puts out a quick and terrible cash-grab game, it really does a big disservice to the console and its community.

[Sumez | 3,156]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Super Ghouls n Ghosts

What's wrong with the GBA version of Super GnG? I think it's really cool.

  

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

If you include the Japanese libraries

Makes no sense not to.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Sumez

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

9 minutes ago, Sumez said:

What's wrong with the GBA version of Super GnG? I think it's really cool.

I thought I read it was compromised by the resolution,but I now realize I'm basing that on a very old memory.

Again, those were just my GBA guestimate assessments 

[Strange | 1,730]

On 10/12/2020 at 1:54 PM, DefaultGen said:

I'd rather play the original versions than the zoomed-in GBA versions of SNES games. Not that the ports are bad or anything, but if I'm picking the best versions of games like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, I'm going with the console versions. GBA has so many original games the SNES ports barely matter though since it has it's own Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games. Both are super good, I'd just probably just lean SNES because it's a console.

Agreed on the zoomed in comment. Playing Super Mario Bros. Deluxe is a nightmare on the GBC, though I haven’t done as much side by side with the SNES to GBA ports.

That being said, I’m a man who values the ability to lay on my ass and have a game right in my face and I’m sure that demographic isn’t insignificant at all.

[Tanooki | 5,123]

Well I can't say I mastered or cared to master much of any game in a very very long time, finished sure, got way far in, even more.  In the era of the GBA into the earlier days of the DS is when I used to get games for free for evaluation as it's when I worked in the gaming media online with AMN, then Kombo.  I've had solid exposure to quite a few titles I would have and definitely would not have spent the money on.  A few surprises, some disappointments too, but when you're reviewing games at a minimum you need to slam home a lot of the title if not all of it depending on the time frame you're looking to be required to have something written.

I do like where Reed was going with that, but I'd still find it very hard to argue the GBA had the lesser library, then again, we're talking about individual taste.  I'm not saying the SNES had a worse one either, variety wise, perhaps it does though, but it's a product of its time too.  The SNES was just rife with platformers to a fault, then RPGs /action RPGS too but more of a pass there as most ended up timeless classics you still see re-released today. The platformers though, for every 1st party gem or random weird solid 3rd party one (say like Sparkster) you had a multiple of turds over that.  The 90s just had less variety in genres or blending of them, they played to what the smaller market then wanted which was that, just like the FPS got asinine out of control within less than a decade after.  GBA though, it has those platformers, but it also has a solid thick library of other genres in racing, flight, rpg, jrpg, adventure, diablo types, SOTN style games, and more.  Yet the GBA is saddled with a lot larger library made larger by an out of control level of licensed kid crap and terrible movie games (the latter the SNES is familiar with -- HI bebe's kids!)

Each has their own problems, but I'd argue the GBA may have the better library, because if you sift out 500 turds you can find a deep level of wide quality genre variety and not just because of some SNES ports though they help too.  Still it would be fair to strangely yet deservedly so call them out for their bs treatment of Mario, not one legit game for him that wasn't part of those 'Advance' title conversion/ports (or GBA NES series SMB1 emulation.)

[fox | 1,771]

GBA games always have a catch be it either squished down resolution, compressed audio, or lack of a built in 2nd player mode for easy multiplayer.

Advantage is GBA’s portability asumming you have an sp model or one with backlight.  Ugh another catch.  Of course this is 2020, you can consolize the GBA or play SNES games portable various ways.

SNES library is GOAT.  Not to knock the GBA library since there are a number of classics.  Overall the GBA suffers from too many dime a dozen jrpgs, ports, kid and anime liscenced trash, and just shovelware in general.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

I guess you can strike this one from the list of GBA strengths:

Beyond the SNES version, which was later released on the Wii Virtual Console, R-Type III was ported to the Game Boy Advance in 2004 by Raylight Studios, an Italian developer. Unfortunately they were not provided with the original source code and had to replicate the game from scratch. On the surface it looks good, with the only major compromise seeming to be the smaller field of view owing to the portable screen. But it soon gives way to more severe problems, including sketchy hit detection and other bugs that make the game way more difficult than it already was. While there’s a password option, when you run out of lives, you have to start from the beginning of the level, rather than a checkpoint. The music also sounds terrible.

[T-Pac | 7,888]

It might be worth mentioning that, for a large chunk of the GBA's younger demographic in the early 2000s, all the SNES ports might as well have been brand-new games unique to the handheld's library. I cut my teeth on the GBA as a kid, and I never knew what a Super Nintendo was. I thought Yoshi's Island was a Gameboy game through and through.

Not sure how this would weigh-in to the comparison, but the significance of all the excellent games ported to the GBA can't be understated.

-CasualCart

[Makar | 2,062]

1 hour ago, CasualCart said:

It might be worth mentioning that, for a large chunk of the GBA's younger demographic in the early 2000s, all the SNES ports might as well have been brand-new games unique to the handheld's library. I cut my teeth on the GBA as a kid, and I never knew what a Super Nintendo was. I thought Yoshi's Island was a Gameboy game through and through.

Not sure how this would weigh-in to the comparison, but the significance of all the excellent games ported to the GBA can't be understated.

-CasualCart

I can relate to this too. I only played a couple of the staple SNES game growing up. I knew zelda a lttp was a SNES game, but had no idea breath of fire I and II were SNES games. 

It's also worth pointing out that the GBA also had a good bit of solid NES ports. 

Someone else earlier was asking for a GBA hidden gem. Check out boktai. 

[Tanooki | 5,123]

I've made that argument for years now, too many, and older gamers are just jerks when it comes to finding excuses when to condemn a system and they start running out of excuses.  It's very easy to get all indignant and self righteous why a system sucks balls because it has some ports.  Great wanker, did time stop in the last 25-30 years as far as pregnancies go?  Nope.  Recently the excellent example was the mass trolling of Super Mario 3D Allstars for Switch just getting nasty over it, and one of the largest was bitching about the price over 3 old games calling it a ripoff because they're not entirely not redone but are emulated ports.  Great, and well Super Mario 64 is a nearly 25 year old game now, Mario Sunshine is nearing 20 years, and the youngest Galaxy is 13 pushing 14 next year.  There are surprisingly a lot people who have never touched these games, at least the latter 2 before, legally at the least if they went with ROMs, if at all.

 

My kid is 8 and she never has touched Mario 64 or Sunshine before this release, and she's taken over my card leaving it in her Switch Lite.  But hey, it must be crap because it's an old game right and ports shouldn't count.  Yeah...NO.  Every one of those SNES ports from a decade earlier on GBA are just as much a legit new game to most people, far more than had a SNES that's for certain.  So when factoring those 2 libraries side by side it's just as fair to call Mario Advance 4 (SMB3) or Phalanx, Donkey Kong Country, or Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse all NEW games because for a majority, given the years(time displacement) it is.

[Br81zad | 630]

Man, I love my SNES, but it's a tough call.

Lately I've been playing through the GBA Metroid and Castlevania titles. It's not really a fair fight, the newer Castlevania games are easily better than the SNES predecessors. (then again, you may think the opposite if you prefer the classic style over the SOTN style of game play). And Fusion may indeed have the hand holding "security lock" sequence that limits free roaming exploration, but it also has SA-X and those encounters are way more intense than I expected them to be. 

GBA also has the Pokemon games, and whether you like them or not, they're an undeniable hit that the SNES lacks.

What the SNES does have are the superior TMNT games. Turtles in Time and Tournament Fighters are better than any TMNT games on the GBA. Also the SNES also has the Mega Man X games which I prefer to the Zero games. And last but not least, Super Mario RPG is only on the SNES.

 

Shoot, I started out leaning one way, but I've kinda fallen back to the undecided middle... lol

[Reed Rothchild | 9,932]

Yeah, that's another interesting thought exercise.

I like Super Metroid more than Fusion, but Zero Mission?  I mean it's basically another Super Metroid, but that's not a bad thing. In fact it's a great thing.

And I dig both SNES Castlevanias, but I'm not sure either can touch Aria of Sorrow.

So then you start thinking.  If Zero Mission or Aria of Sorrow were SNES games, would they be in the top 30?  Top 20?  Top 10?

If Chrono Trigger had originated on GBA, would some people call it the best game on the system?

Where would Phantasy Star III land in top SNES games?  What if it was bundled with parts 1 and 2?

1 hour ago, Br81zad said:

GBA also has the Pokemon games, and whether you like them or not, they're an undeniable hit that the SNES lacks.

[Sumez | 3,156]

7 hours ago, Makar said:

Someone else earlier was asking for a GBA hidden gem. Check out boktai. 

Boktai is one of the first titles I think of when trying to remember notable original GBA games, along with the Castlevania titles. It was pretty hugely promoted. The sequel was less prominent though.

I appreciate ideas for some easy to miss games though, because I know they are definitely out there.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Sumez

[Sumez | 3,156]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Every one of those SNES ports from a decade earlier on GBA are just as much a legit new game to most people, far more than had a SNES that's for certain.  So when factoring those 2 libraries side by side it's just as fair to call Mario Advance 4 (SMB3) or Phalanx, Donkey Kong Country, or Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse all NEW games because for a majority, given the years(time displacement) it is.

If you're just picking up a GBA, and ignore the existence of the SNES, then yeah, the GBA SNES ports are great - at least the ones that were handled well (it really is a mixed bag). It's not like they don't matter.

But if you want to compare two game libraries, wouldn't it make more sense to primarily look at the titles originally released for that platform as the ones that make them unique, and in terms of ports - at least look objectively at how they fare on a grander scope.
For example, the GBA FF5 was a nice improvement over the original, and the first non-CD version officially in English. FF6 is more divisive, but has both additions and bug fixes over the SNES one. Meanwhile, being able to play Breath of Fire with an insufferable music quality, or Yoshi's Island on a smaller resolution might not exactly be the one to give the GBA an edge over the platform those games was actually made for.
It's not like I'm gonna give the SNES points in its favor for massively limped versions of Doom or Samurai Shodown either. It's cool that they exist, especially back in those days, but there are better ways to play those games.

I'm sure most people appreciate both platforms, and any direct comparison is done lovingly. The SNES library is massive and as endlessly deep as it is visibly tall, it's hard for any platform to beat that.

[Makar | 2,062]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

Boktai is one of the first titles I think of when trying to remember notable original GBA games, along with the Castlevania titles. It was pretty hugely promoted. The sequel was less prominent though.

I appreciate ideas for some easy to miss games though, because I know they are definitely out there.

Hmm I've only met 1 person in real life who has ever played or even heard of boktai before I told them about it. The only reason I knew about it was because of the Django chips in the mega man battle network series. 

Anyone played these games? I feel like maybe the reason it's hard to compare libraries is because very few people have dived into the GBA library the same way people have done so for the SNES library. 

https://www.racketboy.com/retro/best-undiscovered-nintendo-game-boy-advance-gba-games

[Sumez | 3,156]

I'd say Mega Man Battle Network is definitely more "obscure" than Boktai

That racketboy article highlights a lot of really good games. But I think the fact that Wario Land, Kuru Kuru Kuririn, and Astro Boy gets the highlights say sa lot about how deep people are really "able" to dig.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Sumez

[Strange | 1,730]

Here’s another factor: how many Sega arcade titles, Genesis ports, etc. did the GBA get? I know I’m referencing more ports to the system rather than originals but I do think they factor into the overall image of the library.

I can think of the Sega Arcade Gallery, Sonic 1 port (pretty bad from what I hear), and I think PAL territories got a port of Steel Empire?

If you just want to count original Sega stuff (Genesis-like games) there’s Gunstar Super Heroes, the Sonic Advance series, Pinball of the Dead, etc. just a few off the top of my head.