Sequel Showdown #1 - Mega Man

[AstralSoul | 522]

Joining the trend of game debates I figured I'd give my own spin a shot I'll try to post a new one every week or so, pitting original games and their sequels against each other. Where I draw the line in which sequels I include is at my own discretion.

I figured I'd start with the King of sequels himself, Mega Man! Vote for your favorite!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by AstralSoul

[Link | 2,878]

I think 2 and 3 are the most popular. 

I know that 2 is my favorite, and 3 generally has a slight edge on it in the zeitgeist. 3 has a more complex story, more characters, a more challenging Wily castle. More tricks (the super jump and invincible secrets with P2 controller were neat.)  Better (more canon-compliant) box art. 2 feels more cohesive, and the weapons, stage design, and music are are better, as a whole. imo.

I was disappointed by 4, with the fakeout story and the unoriginal weapons (i.e. skull shield similar to and worse than leaf shield). After that, 5 and 6 just seemed to be more of the same over and over again. 

I’d like to take each game purely on its own merits and with no context to my prior experience, but I haven’t ever really had time / inclination  to more thoroughly explore later entries to the series. 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Link

[DefaultGen | 5,724]

2 because 3 is laggy, bloated with rehash MM2 stuff, and generally overrated AF and like every poser I’ve not played 4-6.

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

25 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

2 because 3 is laggy, bloated with rehash MM2 stuff, and generally overrated AF and like every poser I’ve not played 4-6.

Same here! I've tried to get into 3 a few times and it just doesn't feel right with all the lag. The slide is fun to use though

[Sumez | 3,153]

Before this thread goes too far I'll try to stop the bias people usually have against the later NES sequels. Play them through yourself and form your own opinion.

There's a common misconception that the series grew stale after 2 or 3, which I guess is an easy assumption to make since all of the NES games are built around the same basic formula, and reuse a lot of assets and general design elements.
At the time of their release when people were hungering for new crazy ideas (ie. Mega Man X) there's some merit to that of course. But in retrospect there's no ignoring that every single entry among the NES Mega Man games is a fantastic game, and among the best stuff the platform has to offer.

Which one is your favourite might be down to personal preference, but Capcom absolutely did not slack on the later titles. Each of them generally added new challenges, and smoothed out the overall design always learning from the earlier games. An obvious example of that would be the memorization-heavy Yoku Blocks, which dominated the earlier entries, but grew less lethal and more optional later on, only ultimately disappear entirely.
Looking at Mega Man 5 and 6 especially, those are also some of the best looking games on the NES, definitely proving that Capcom gave a lot of priority to the production value of these titles, too:

  

A lot of people will cite Mega Man 2 as their favourite. And it's a great game, so I can't fault it. But it feels like it often also comes down to nostalgia or just plain old bandwagons. I kind of like how the "boss order" is a lot less strict (compared to both MM1 and the later ones), but aside from that I don't think it really does anything the other games don't. It's also by far the easiest game in the series, and has quite a few questionable parts to it, with the entirety of Wily-4 (the boss especially) being just genuinely bad to the point where the game would be better without it.

To me, my favourites are probably a tie between Mega Man 3 and Mega Man 4, as those to me are some of the most substantial and enjoyable games in the series, with some of the most memorable boss fights to top it off.
MM4 is just a nearly flawless game through and through that represents everything I'd want from a Mega Man game, even though I'm not a big fan of the charge shot.
MM3 is a massive title that does something I'd wish more of the sequels would have revisted with the Doc stages, which not only pits you against well known bosses from the past, but also allows the game to reuse concepts from the original stages with a higher demand for player performance.

[Sumez | 3,153]

I'm not sure what "lag" you guys are talking about with regards to Mega Man 3? Did you play a questionable port or emulator?
Mega Man's controls were changed very little across the NES iterations of the series, with the most notable tightening happening between MM1 and MM2 which shortened the slight decelaration after ending movement, which made some precision positioning difficult in the first game, and could actually be perceived as a type of slight "lag".

From MM2 to 3 that was only tightened further. In MM2 stopping at full speed will continue to move another 4 pixels across 8 frames, while MM3 only moves around 1.3 extra pixel (equivalent to one extra frame of full speed).

All three games have 7-9 frames of "wind-up" acceleration when you start moving.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sumez

[Sumez | 3,153]

Not that is has any shot at being anywhere near anyone's favourite, but would Rockman & Forte not count as a mainline game?

Lots of people even used to call it Mega Man 9 until Inti Creates made a game actually called that.  

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

27 minutes ago, Sumez said:

I'm not sure what "lag" you guys are talking about with regards to Mega Man 3? Did you play a questionable port or emulator?
Mega Man's controls were changed very little across the NES iterations of the series, with the most notable tightening happening between MM1 and MM2 which shortened the slight decelaration after ending movement, which made some precision positioning difficult in the first game, and could actually be perceived as a type of slight "lag".

From MM2 to 3 that was only tightened further. In MM2 stopping at full speed will continue to move another 4 pixels across 8 frames, while MM3 only moves around 1.3 extra pixel (equivalent to one extra frame of full speed).

All three games have 7-9 frames of "wind-up" acceleration when you start moving.

I played it on an nes. I'm talking more from having too much on screen at one time, seems like they did that more in 3 than in 2, causing slowdown. Its been a while since I popped in 3 though 

[Sumez | 3,153]

Oh. Right. The slowdown. Didn't cross my mind you could perceive that as "lag", whoops.

Yeah, it's pretty prevalent in Mega Man 3, moreso than any other game in the series, and probably ties into the game famously being rushed because Capcom wanted to cash in on MM2's success. It also suffers from some of the worst sprite flickering, which is pretty baffling to me, because the routine to handle that is just awfully programmed - straight up blanking out the same sprites for multiple frames in a row, making it appear much worse than it really should be. If you open the game in an emulator that's able to step one frame ahead at a time, you can see how bad it is.

I've never felt down right bothered by it though. I tend to kill stuff when it shows up on the screen.  

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sumez

[Renmauzo | 1,206]

Missing Rockman & Forte, which I love (don't care about the hate this game gets, it's awesome), and it would be a 3 way tie between that, 8 and 11 for me. Arm twisted, I'd give the edge to 11 for being pretty well perfectly crafted and balanced like X.

I need to spend more time with 9 and 10 as I haven't put in the work yet.

[Sumez | 3,153]

11 definitely deserves a big shoutout. It's a great game, crafted with nice understanding of what makes Mega Man stage design so entertaining, and IMO it was massive comeback for the series. I was afraid I'd hate it because of the "double gear system" which can easily be used as a crutch to overcome most of the game's challenges, but somehow they managed to not make it break the game.

The demo is baffling, because it's probably the worst stage in the game, and the boss fight is awful, while most of the other bosses in the game are really cool.

I love this guy. Primary reason to play with Japanese voices:

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sumez

[Deadeye | 1,601]

I didn't play Mega Man as a kid, if I did I don't recall it.  Several years ago I played through a beat MM2 - MM5 and played (but did not finish) MM and MM6.  Baring some change of opinion for finishing up the two titles,  Mega Man 2 is my favorite, followed by Mega Man 4.  I agree with @DefaultGen and @Splain I find MM3 boated and rehash of MM2.  

I do agree with @Sumez , all the entries are impressive, and I don't think that the entries drop off in quality as time went on.  I do enjoy MM5 and MM6. 

[MegaMan52 | 2,564]

Mega Man 5.

Mega Man 2 is beyond overrated, and I even prefer Mega Man 3 over it despite obviously being a somewhat unfinished game.

Edit: I posted reasons as to why Mega Man 5 is my favorite in NostalgicMachine's Mega Man 2 topic on NintendoAge:

-Each level has a gimmick of sorts that gives the game more variety: Gyro Man's stage has that section where you're riding a elevator and have to avoid spikes, and Stone Man's stage has no less than three hidden rooms

-The sound effect for a charged Mega Buster shot is unique to this game and sounds much cooler than in Mega Man 4 and 6

-Rush Coil is different. Not necessarily "better", but it's nice that they tried something a little different for once

-Not only does it have Rush and Eddie, but also introduces Beat

-I, for one, actually like the music. Wave Man's music is catchy, and Crystal Man's music fits his stage almost perfectly

-They removed Rush Marine, apparently realizing that it is near useless

-The Super Arrow is literally a 3-in-1 gadget

-And while graphics may not be as important as gameplay, MM5's graphics are a noticeable improvement over the previous games

https://connect.gocollect.com/discussion/153120/why-i-feel-mega-man-2-is-overrated/p4

Edited December 22, 2020 by MegaMan52

[Khromak | 837]

This is an incredibly difficult decision to make. MM1-6 are all incredible games and all have a lot going for them. I agree with what most posters have said: MM2 was amazing at the time, has incredible music and memorable bosses and stages, but it is definitely very much nostalgia-ridden for most people, myself included. It's WAY too easy, especially if you just metal blade everything.

I think 3-6 are the best games but they kind of blend together for me. I'm not sure I could list all 8 bosses of any of those 4, with the possibly exception of #3. They're all absolutely top-tier games but the MM series is very samey. I voted for 6 because I liked the innovation of the hover pack and punching suits, energy distributor, and secrets in there. Admittedly it's got a lot of flaws and might not actually be the best, but it's the one that stands out to me with the most interesting mechanics.

[Webhead123 | 745]

MM2 is easily the winner for me, although to be fair, I didn't really keep up with the series much after MM4. MM2 was the right level of challenge and has the most consistent gameplay and best music in the series. MM3 had some interesting ideas but never felt as "complete" as MM2 in terms of its design. MM5 & 6, which I only played decades later, felt a bit too easy and derivative and MM9 overcompensated by being way too punishing.

I have never played 7, 8 or 10. I have 11 on my backlog but haven't gotten to it yet. It looks fairly promising.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Webhead123

[ifightdragons | 234]

My ultimate Mega Man:

Mega Man 5 w/ the music from 2.

[RH | 5,206]

I hate to admit this, seriously, but I've probably not put more than one hour, collectively, in all Mega Man titles.  This series is probably the #1 series I wish I'd give some time to invest in.

I loved DuckTales for the Game Boy and it's my second-favorite GB game and definitely in the top 5 platform titles.  When I heard years later that it was built on top of a Mega Man engine, I could definitely see the similarities from game play footage.  Regardless, I've just not yet made it a top priority to pick these up and give each mainline title an honest try.

So, I guess for me, my vote is DuckTales, because that's all I can honestly offer.

Edited December 22, 2020 by RH

[mbd39 | 2,092]

I lost interest in Mega Man after MM2 until Mega Man X arrived. To me it felt like a bunch of redundant cookie cutter games. I haven't played most of them.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by mbd39

[AstralSoul | 522]

4 hours ago, Sumez said:

Before this thread goes too far I'll try to stop the bias people usually have against the later NES sequels. Play them through yourself and form your own opinion.

There's a common misconception that the series grew stale after 2 or 3, which I guess is an easy assumption to make since all of the NES games are built around the same basic formula, and reuse a lot of assets

Completely agree. The later MM games are every bit as good as the earlier ones. Like you said though I think people just don't hold them as in high regard because they reuse the same assets and follow the same formula. Me, personally, if something works I love when companies keep the same formula. But I'm sure by the 5th and 6th entries people have just grown tired of them. I know when the New Super Mario Bros games were coming out back to back by the time the Wii U one came out I wanted something new.

That said I went with MM3 because it has my favorite bosses, stages and music but the most nostalgia for me because it was the first and only MM game I played as a kid when it was first released. I didn't get to play the rest of the series until the MM Collection came out on PS2/GameCube. I almost went with 6 or 9 for favorite though, since I think without nostalgia for 3 I might've gone with 6, since there's just something about it that's easier than 1-5 and more memorable than the later ones. 9 got me re- interested in the series and I absolutely loved the return to the NES style graphics and I think is the objectively best in the series (bold statement I know). But yeah had to go with 3.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,918]

Not sure, I've never played 9, and it's been at least 15 years since I've played most of the rest.

Definitely not 1 or 7 though.

[phart010 | 1,779]

I’m the only person I have ever known to like Megaman 7 the best

[Gloves | 12,251]

5 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I’m the only person I have ever known to like Megaman 7 the best

Of all the Mega Man games, I only actually like Legends.

[Tanooki | 5,113]

Got to respect the nod to Legends, loved the refined version N64 got as Mega Man 64.

Surprised to see 11 pop up.  I had that, tried to get myself into it and I never could.  I'm not sure if it's mega man burnout or it didn't feel right, but in all fairness outside of MM5 GB being new to me a few years ago when I found it locally as part of a lot, I've not really tried much on them in a long time.  MM2 remained my favorite through the NES and SNES era though as it just felt like it didn't over complicate stuff, wasn't stiff and cheapo like the original, and well the music, lands, and masters just felt the most original.

[Code Monkey | 2,129]

I have finished all of them on original hardware so I feel like I have some valid points here.

Mega Man is actually one of my favourites in the series, I liked the simplicity of it but it lacked a lot of features that made the series better.

Mega Man 2 is my favourite all around balance. I like other games in the series more for their own reasons but not as an overall balance.

Mega Man 3 added the slide mechanic but I feel like there is lag on the input buttons. When I jump in Mega Man 2, it reacts a frame or two sooner than in Mega Man 3, it's like they added a delay in the input for some reason. I found it really hard to play this game after coming from the first two.

Mega Man 4-6 all suffered from the same input delay so it was harder to play them but I did enjoy some of the new mechanics they added like the Rush suit and gravity inversion.

Mega Man 7 was fine I guess but I preferred the 8 bit aesthetic more than 16 and also the controls.

Mega Man 8 being on PlayStation felt wrong to me. The controller wasn't as nice to use, especially the directional pad. The bosses were lame and the voices were incredibly annoying, it was like listening a 12 year old girl complain about her makeup. I find this a common theme across a lot of the Japanese games I've played, for some reason everyone sounds like a 10 year old girl, I don't know why. 

Mega Man 9 and 10 were probably the best artistic style, game play and definitely music out of the entire series but the difficulty is just way too high for me to make them my favourite. I died A LOT trying to complete these and after finishing them, I never wanted to see them again. The Wily battle music in Mega Man 9 is my favourite track of any Mega Man game so far. If you have not played these games, at least try them, they are fantastic.

Mega Man 11 was fine but again the voices were like 10 year old girls whining about make-up. I didn't understand the gear system and most times I forgot about it because it was just too many things to try and manage during a fight. I wanted to just use the existing mechanics with my acquired weapons and focus only on that. I kept waiting for a situation where the gear mechanic would teach me why it's required but it never happened.

[Code Monkey | 2,129]

Here's the banger music from the Mega Man 9 Wily battle. Spoilers if you don't want to see how to defeat him.