What is - OBJECTIVELY - the best NES / Famicom game?

[dr.robbie | 78]

Obviously, with the listed criteria, SMB3 just blows everything else out of the water. It's not even a contest. I would be interested in a top 10 list or something though. So many quality titles / franchises. 

[mbd39 | 2,095]

SMB3 is to NES as Citizen Kane or the Godfather is to movies and the Beatles is to rock music. It's the boring consensus answer to which is the "greatest of all time."

It's more interesting to ask about favorites because then you might get a more personal opinion. But it's fine if someone's favorite game is actually SMB3 and they're not just regurgitating the consensus.

 

 

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,014]

Given the criteria, SMB3. Nothing else needs to be said.

[Khromak | 837]

I think a more interesting question is the one Classic Gaming Quarterly answered on his YouTube channel: what's your "next 10." That is to say, ignoring the top 10, what are your next 10 favorite games (11-20)? For NES, maybe you increase that to 20 or 25, but it makes for a more interesting question with more varied answers.

As others have said, you really can't say anything other than SMB3, Zelda 1, Megaman *, etc. You will always end with the same 5 answers, even with a library of this size.

I guess it says something about the quality of those games though, that basically the entire world agrees they're the best.

[docile tapeworm | 4,272]

8 hours ago, Gloves said:

The thread is clear - given a set of criterium on objective and (at least relatively) measurable statistics, which NES/Famicom game is best? 

There CAN be an objective best to typically subjective matters when guidelines for measurement are provided. 

Simple science. 

 

3 hours ago, CasualCart said:

@OptOut @Tanooki Without making broader considerations, we’d have to whittle a game down to ones and zeroes to determine it’s merit (which would, in turn, fall flat in finding what makes something ‘the best’).

this was what i was getting at. we can say this game has the most powerful graphics. this game has the highest quality sound, yada yada, but would that make it "the best" game? 

and for those measures i would throw recca in the ring.

[G-type | 2,803]

I mean, we all saw the Wizard. We all remember the moment Lucas expressed his love for the power glove. The answer can only be: Rad Racer.

[G-type | 2,803]

Super Mario 3's music is not as good as parts 1 or 2. Graphically, SMB3s sprites are more detailed (than part 1) but I always felt the colors were a bit "washed out" looking compared to the other 2.

Edited October 13, 2021 by G-type

[fcgamer | 5,015]

12 hours ago, OptOut said:

Wait, I thought we were supposed to be talking like "objectively" right? That really should be focused only on the technical merits of the game, surely?

Marketability, legacy and historical significance seem way more in the "subjective" category to me.

I'm not even saying that Kirby's Adventure is like a more FUN game than SMB3, but just like technically speaking I'd put it ahead.

Well if we're going to take that approach...

I vote Hellraiser. The damned thing wasn't even released, yet it had historical significance, and tech significance, allegedly. Screw Mario 3, screw Kirby too.

[LostLevel83 | 87]

I’m saying DuckTales.

It wraps in a whole lot of contributing elements.

• Fun game play
• Great music
• Based on a popular cartoon (Disney)
• Good re-play ability
• Pick up and play for a short time ability
• Solid graphics for the system
• Best selling NES title for Capcom
• Lasting legacy (got a quality HD remake)

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,123]

4 hours ago, dr.robbie said:

Obviously, with the listed criteria, SMB3 just blows everything else out of the water. It's not even a contest. I would be interested in a top 10 list or something though. So many quality titles / franchises. 

I always thought this list was pretty good: https://www.ign.com/lists/top-100-nes-games

[Reed Rothchild | 9,931]

52 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

I always thought this list was pretty good: https://www.ign.com/lists/top-100-nes-games

I'm gonna do that thing where people look at lists/rankings, notice a particular exclusion, and fixate on that sole thing:

ASTYANAX OVER UNCHARTED WATERS?  GARBAGE LIST!

[mbd39 | 2,095]

I commend that IGN list for saying this about Kung Fu: "Apart from its fun gameplay and difficult boss battles, Kung Fu had inherent replay value simply because the game started over once you beat it with a higher difficulty level. This made it a prime game for high score hunting, with certain parts of the experience that were of the make and break variety. "

Yes, this is exactly right.

 

 

But they get it wrong about Tetris:

"Unfortunately, almost everyone agrees that Tengen's version of the game was far superior to Nintendo's,"

Except Tengen Tetris is virtually forgotten while Nintendo Tetris is becoming more and more popular as a high level competitive game with players still pushing it further and figuring out new ways to get higher scores.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mbd39

[TDIRunner | 2,895]

It's difficult to not say SMB3 despite the fact that it's a super easy answer, and it's not my personnel favorite.  But it is the right answer.  

[MagusSmurf | 579]

silly ign, Dragon Warrior V wasn't even on the NES, list is invalid.

Dragon Warrior I in the top ten is pretty gross though. That game was already a dreadful fossil by the time the NES era wrapped up, let alone now. I guess this is part of the problem with letting things other than the actual quality/enjoyability of the game influence the list: it potentially lets awful but influential games claim a high spot. But that should be a red flag that something about your criteria and how you've made the list has gone dreadfully wrong, and not just go "this is fine."

[glazball | 176]

Another vote here for SMB3.

I'd certainly be interested to see how the forum would rank the top 100 (or at least 25) NES games.  I suspect that if we all voted subjectively, SMB3 wouldn't be #1.  Who wants to do the legwork?  Not it!

[mbd39 | 2,095]

17 minutes ago, MagusSmurf said:

silly ign, Dragon Warrior V wasn't even on the NES, list is invalid.

Dragon Warrior I in the top ten is pretty gross though. That game was already a dreadful fossil by the time the NES era wrapped up, let alone now. I guess this is part of the problem with letting things other than the actual quality/enjoyability of the game influence the list: it potentially lets awful but influential games claim a high spot. But that should be a red flag that something about your criteria and how you've made the list has gone dreadfully wrong, and not just go "this is fine."

 

Dragon Warrior does deserve to be on the list for being one of the most important and influential games ever made. Maybe not ranked so high.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,931]

32 minutes ago, glazball said:

Another vote here for SMB3.

I'd certainly be interested to see how the forum would rank the top 100 (or at least 25) NES games.  I suspect that if we all voted subjectively, SMB3 wouldn't be #1.  Who wants to do the legwork?  Not it!

Once upon a time I actually did this.  Some of you may remember.

But I was never completely happy with the sample size.

And then we lost NA, and a lot of the data.  I'm not even sure if I have the spreadsheet anymore.

[peg | 382]

Tetris > SMB3

[the_wizard_666 | 1,333]

13 hours ago, Gaia Gensouki said:

Well, if we're loking at sales numbers then SMB comes ahead with over 40 million units sold whereas SMB 3 "only" sold 18 million copies. Source

Those numbers don't tell the whole story, as it includes every copy that came with the system.  Nobody would say that Keith Courage is the best selling TG-16 game, or that Combat was the best selling 2600 game, as damn near every console came packed with the game.  It's hard NOT to be a bestseller when you're a pack-in title.  A better reflection would be to subtract the total Duck Hunt sales from SMB.  But then that doesn't factor Deluxe Set Duck Hunt carts.  Looking at the sales of Gyromite being 1.3 million, I'd say we could safely add a million back in, as Gyromite didn't exactly sell much separately.  So doing all that, SMB sold around 13 million copies, a full 5 million units back of SMB 3.  Even if we factor in a few copies of Duck Hunt that actually sold individually (a rarity to be sure, but something that did happen), that's just too many units to make up.

[GPX | 1,404]

10 hours ago, CasualCart said:

@OptOut @Tanooki @docile tapeworm- I’m torn.

One one hand, you guys are totally right. My holistic approach to ‘objective’ ranking introduces too many ‘subjective’ standards. Things like popularity and aesthetics are heavily rooted in personal bias, after all.

But on the other hand, a game is more than just gameplay. Its audiovisuals, branding, and marketability are integral to what it is and how the world perceives it. Without making broader considerations, we’d have to whittle a game down to ones and zeroes to determine it’s merit (which would, in turn, fall flat in finding what makes something ‘the best’).

My final verdict: there is no such thing as objectivity and I regret making this thread haha.

(Also, to say I posed the question specifically for Super Mario Bros 3 is untrue - I actually made this thread with Tetris in mind…)

-CasualCart

This topic is basically asking “what is the best art, objectively?” 

Or...

Objectively, which is CasualCart’s best art work on VGS? 

Answer: undefined.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by GPX

[guitarzombie | 936]

Mr. Gimmick, certainly is a great choice except that its stupidly hard.  If it was easier, I would put it at #1.  Id say thats its only flaw.  For me it doesn't matter, but I'm thinking for the general public.

[GPX | 1,404]

43 minutes ago, the_wizard_666 said:

Those numbers don't tell the whole story, as it includes every copy that came with the system.  Nobody would say that Keith Courage is the best selling TG-16 game, or that Combat was the best selling 2600 game, as damn near every console came packed with the game.  It's hard NOT to be a bestseller when you're a pack-in title.  A better reflection would be to subtract the total Duck Hunt sales from SMB.  But then that doesn't factor Deluxe Set Duck Hunt carts.  Looking at the sales of Gyromite being 1.3 million, I'd say we could safely add a million back in, as Gyromite didn't exactly sell much separately.  So doing all that, SMB sold around 13 million copies, a full 5 million units back of SMB 3.  Even if we factor in a few copies of Duck Hunt that actually sold individually (a rarity to be sure, but something that did happen), that's just too many units to make up.

But even if Mario Bros wasn’t sold as a pack-in with the console, whoever bought a NES back then would most likely purchased Mario Bros anyway. It was undoubtedly the most popular, most advertised and most excellent gameplay for its time. 

No doubt Mario 3 was the better technical game in every conceivable way. Though this then poses a conundrum:

Which is the better game, the sequel with the most advancements (Mario 3)? Or the series origin which paved all the quality gaming mechanics henceforth (Mario 1)?

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

2 hours ago, GPX said:

Which is the better game, the sequel with the most advancements (Mario 3)? Or the series origin which paved all the quality gaming mechanics henceforth (Mario 1)?

Mario 3 is the better game. SMB is the more important game.

But they're both amazing and should be included in the top ten.

[Tanooki | 5,115]

19 hours ago, OptOut said:

Yeah, but he might have well included  "title containing the number 3 and the word Bros." in his list of criteria! There's zero room for discussion! 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'd like to continue discussing how little there is for us to discuss. 

Stay awhile...and listen... (you know reading this, you heard it in your head)

[Tanooki | 5,115]

10 hours ago, G-type said:

Super Mario 3's music is not as good as parts 1 or 2. Graphically, SMB3s sprites are more detailed (than part 1) but I always felt the colors were a bit "washed out" looking compared to the other 2.

Personally speaking my very ancient two cents on this going back to when SMB3 came out, and re-affirmed with the All-Stars.  The Mario/Luigi sprite used in SMB3 was utter crap and downgrade from the one in Super Mario Bros 2(USA.)  You went from this beautifully detailed and drawn cartoon quality sprite with nice attention to head to toe detail to that.  That being one with more flat colors, loss of detail, and shitty little beady black dot eyes.  That always irked me, the rest of the game was more or less a visual boost, but the key player sprites were junky.