NES Shmups

[WhyNotZoidberg | 590]

On 12/17/2021 at 3:03 PM, the_wizard_666 said:

Wikipedia isn't exactly a viable source...and I can 100% say that nobody called run and gun games "shooters" back in the day.  They were action games, plain and simple.  As were platform games - that wasn't even considered a genre of their own until MUCH later.

I knew it. Every time one cites Wikipedia, one gets reminded that it isn't 100% reliable. We weren't agreeing on semantics so I thought Wikipedia would be a decent mediator in this situation. Because this is a light-hearted discussion about fun games we like to play.

It looks like the disagreement persists, so I'll keep on believing that games where one shoots a weapon fall under the category of "shooter" somehow. 

[WhyNotZoidberg | 590]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:59 PM, the_wizard_666 said:

Single-screen = Arcade (genre)

Scrolling screen =/= Arcade (genre)

Or how about this definition: Arcade genre is typified by simplicity: in presentation, gameplay environments and rules. Arcade games generally evolve through difficulty rather than the introduction of complexity through new characters, new controls, or new mechanics.

 

Yeah you copy/pasted 1 dude's answer from a Q&A Forum from 5 years ago. I hate to say it, but it isn't a reliable source.

edit: Is Tetris an arcade game? edit2: is Arkanoid not an arcade game?

Edited December 20, 2021 by WhyNotZoidberg

[T-Pac | 7,747]

This thread has had me spiraling all week trying to figure out what exactly is the difference between an "overhead run 'n gun" and a "scrolling shoot-em-up".

And after a lot of painful deliberation, I think the only consistent distinguishing feature might just be (as the name implies) whether or not the player runs...

...which is dumb.

-CasualCart

 

[T-Pac | 7,747]

Also - for a game to qualify as a shoot-em-up, I think the player should be able to shoot as a default attack.

If you gain the ability to shoot later, then the game merely has shoot-em-up elements.

-CasualCart

[docile tapeworm | 4,221]

Still waiting for jaws to be put on the list. With bttf and TGL.

[the_wizard_666 | 1,329]

5 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

I knew it. Every time one cites Wikipedia, one gets reminded that it isn't 100% reliable. We weren't agreeing on semantics so I thought Wikipedia would be a decent mediator in this situation. Because this is a light-hearted discussion about fun games we like to play.

It looks like the disagreement persists, so I'll keep on believing that games where one shoots a weapon fall under the category of "shooter" somehow. 

So Super Mario Bros is a shooter because fireballs? 

4 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

Yeah you copy/pasted 1 dude's answer from a Q&A Forum from 5 years ago. I hate to say it, but it isn't a reliable source.

edit: Is Tetris an arcade game? edit2: is Arkanoid not an arcade game?

I quoted a post from five years ago that stated exactly what I was trying to state, in words that weren't forming in my head.  I also didn't post the quote as a fact or anything, hence no reference to it.  It was merely words already existing somewhere that said exactly what I have been saying the entire goddamn time.  Also, yes, Tetris would by definition fall in as an arcade-puzzler, and Arkanoid (aka Breakout) would also be an arcade game.  Anything else?

[WhyNotZoidberg | 590]

1 minute ago, the_wizard_666 said:

So Super Mario Bros is a shooter because fireballs? 

No because Mario and Luigi's magical fireballs are cast, not shot from a weapon

Jokes aside, SMB's core focus is running and jumping. You needn't shoot a single projectile to get through the entire game. Can't say that about Contra.

[docile tapeworm | 4,221]

Vpd has a shooter stage. Put it on the list like xexyz.

[Tanooki | 5,000]

Yup I just finally got my first taste of Vice Project Doom the other day having found it, and it does in fact have a stage or two in there just like The Punisher, Bayou Billy, or Operation Wolf when played with no zapper... run and gun move along shooter you have no control over.

[Sumez | 3,090]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:33 PM, CasualCart said:

And after a lot of painful deliberation, I think the only consistent distinguishing feature might just be (as the name implies) whether or not the player runs...

...which is dumb.

Typically this distinction comes with the ability to forcibly scroll the stage, rather than the game having forced autoscrolling.

It might sounds like a minor difference, but it actually makes quite a big difference in this sort of gameplay, since you can do things like camp in a location, or slowly scroll in dangerous enemies, one at a time. But at the same time I think most people would agree the two approaches are still similar enough that they would appeal to the exact same crowd.

I think the distinction is best illustrated by Out Zone, which for all intends and purposes feels like a shoot'em up, created by the influential shoot'em up masters at Toaplan, and is frequently thrown in as a part of their overall shoot'em up library. It only scrolls in one direction, it never lets you go back in a stage, and one of your weapons always shoots forward like a shmup, but it has the player-forced scrolling of a run'n'gun game, and as a result people usually hesitate to call it a real shoot'em up. Though at the same time, I think few people would object to the fact that a game can be both.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Sumez