the_wizard_666

You're literally the only person here that's being irrational. Nobody else is trying to find a roundabout way to describe a near-complete collection. Sheesh. Like I said, collect what you want, but don't say you have a full set if you don't have a full set. Full stop. Caveats are fine - plenty of people have an SE repro, foreign copy, or simply exclude it and say they have a full set minus one. Plenty of others strike off other titles for various reasons, and again, that is perfectly alright. But you are arguing to make the definition of a full set to not include SE, and trying to come up with the flimsiest of reasons to justify that exclusion, when the sole reason you don't want it to count is because you can't afford it. And that right there is what makes the argument asinine. YOU CAN COLLECT WHAT YOU WANT AND BE HAPPY WITH IT. I'm not saying you HAVE to get SE to make your collection complete, I'm saying you won't have a complete NES collection without it. When you say your collection is complete, that means you've collected everything you want to acquire and are done with it. But when you say you have a complete collection, that means you have everything released within that collection. It's a subtle difference, but it does have major connotations to it that seem to be flying over your head. And at the end of the day, if evidence comes forward that gives a reason for SE (or any other game for that matter) to be removed from what is considered a complete NES library, I for one am willing to consider it. Hell, in SE's case, it'd be a 5 digit purchase I don't have to make to complete my set. But much like when people want to add something to the list of official releases, the burden of proof should be on the person arguing the point, and the evidence needs to stand on it's own merits.

Everyone enjoys their games differently. It may not matter to YOU, but it does to some. And honestly, for me it's a big reason to replay these games, as most of them I've already finished with long ago otherwise. Different strokes for different folks.

First point - That's because the whole argument is asinine. Second point - I understand that, which is good, because you won't change my mind. But you basically spelled out exactly what I made in the second part - that the only reason people are trying to explain SE away is because of the cost involved. I cannot afford it either, but I would never in a million years say my set is complete without it. Why? BECAUSE MY SET WILL NEVER BE COMPLETE WITHOUT IT. If you can't afford it, that's fine, but to go on an endless tirade of tangents to explain it away so that you can tell people your set is a complete set is, quite literally, stupid. Third point - I wouldn't call anything you were trying to do an attempt at reason. If someone told you they had a complete set of Amazing Fantasy comics but they didn't have #15, you wouldn't count it. And if they had a 90s era reprint or something instead of an original, you might say they had a full "reader's" set, but no collector would say that it was a true complete run. So without SE, just say it's a set minus SE, or call it a "player's" set, but it's not, nor will it ever be, a full NES set. Fourth point - If you're wanting to compare dick sizes, I've spent well over two decades collecting games. I have actually made meaningful contributions to the community, and have been researching actual facts about NES games for about as long. I also do it for the same reasons you do - I enjoy this hobby and everything that comes with it. I hold no animosity to you, despite what my tone may suggest. I'm also not pulling shit out of my ass, and provided actual evidence to support my arguments. You posted a blog post full of supposition with nothing concrete to back it up to support yours. So unless you post something concrete, your position is simply untenable. Final point - See my response to your third point. You're not trying to "reason" with anyone, you're trying to force others to accept the limitations you have put on your own collection so you can feel better about it, rather than simply accepting you'd never have a complete set without selling a kidney to achieve it. I also don't have SE, and likely will never be able to afford it, but I also don't go around trying to exclude it because I'm broke. I am not saying you're wrong to exclude it from your personal collection for any of these reasons. Nor would I ever suggest you should be forced to count it on your personal list. I'm simply stating that you're putting a lot of effort trying to make a category that is simply a complicated way of saying "minus Stadium Events" as a qualifier. If someone excludes unlicensed games, they say they are gunning for a licensed set. This is not a COMPLETE set, but it gives enough of a description to know exactly what they are talking about. So if you're going for licensed games without SE, just SAY that. And if you're at the goal, you can say you have a full licensed set minus SE and feel damn proud of your accomplishment. I'm not trying to diminish your collecting goals. I'm questioning why you're trying to find a way to officially exclude a legitimate release. As for the point of subbing in foreign versions of a game that are cheaper has a way to define it too - a player's library. But in that case, specific examples would have to be mentioned if the person every sold off their stuff. But if not, simply saying they have a playable library is enough. So again, I don't really care what you decide to collect. Just stop trying to rationalize the exclusion of SE when it simply makes zero sense to do it. Instead, just be happy with what you choose to pursue. I hope you eventually achieve your goal, whatever it is.

Agreed all around. I figure a good number of them might shoot up, I'd probably have to sit on them far longer than I would like in order to make the expense worthwhile...and there's no guarantee some would even get to a level where I'd break even at this point, especially with the border issues mentioned above. I'll probably wait to see what prices are like in the future and just hang onto them for now.

You're right, I was looking at the WCTM release date by mistake. It was indeed '87.

True, but it was likely established by 1988 when Stadium Events was released. Though it's indeed possible that they asked for an exception to be made for SE as well, since it's obviously a niche product. I would imagine other games that required a peripheral to play that was sold separately from the game would also fit the bill for such an exception. It's also possible that there was a reduced limit for such games overall. It's really tough to say without any sort of internal documentation. I'd love to see some of the old contracts if the paperwork still exists in an archive somewhere...though odds are it got shredded at some point.

^^ What he said. *EDIT: Assuming I can actually GET that far in two hours. I haven't played the game in well over a decade, and generally suck at platformers, so it's quite possible I won't get a participation score

That's the normal way to do it, yeah. He's suggesting an alternative, and not just hitting Gofundme to beg, but to provide a product/service (in this case, t-shirts) to people who wish to help you out. If I had some skill with art, I would actually consider that - selling prints and shirts and whatnot with my art on it. But since I lack that skill, that'd mean I'd not only have to cut in the printing company, but an artist as well. Though it does get me thinking about other possibilities in the same vein. Every little bit helps after all.

First point, the "facts" shown in the article you linked are largely hearsay, and most have been debunked throughout the years on multiple occasions. And again, the fact that Nintendo themselves kept it not only on their official checklist, but in their Pak Source guide as well. The licensed Tengen games are not on that list, nor are they in Pak Source, while SE and WCTM both are. That alone shows that Nintendo still considers Stadium Events as an official full retail release, while the Tengen carts are removed despite having been licensed at one point. Below is the back half of the index from Pak Source (printed in 1990), showing evidence - while Gauntlet is too early in the alphabet, neither Pac-Man nor RBI Baseball appear, while both SE and WCTM are there: Additionally, Nintendo Power was exclusive to North America, meaning Pak Source only had games that were commercially released in North America. Also of note is the actual descriptions of both games (conveniently on the same page: So Nintendo actually acknowledged that the game is identical, so that people didn't go out and buy old stock of what was essentially the same game. And honestly, since they never sold the Power Pad without WCTM, it also serves as a way for anyone who had the old FFF pad (bundled with Athletic World) knew that if they wanted WCTM they could just buy SE and have the exact same game. Note that it says nothing about being discontinued, although odds are new stock was never shipped out once the deal was struck with Nintendo. But even discarding all of that, there is no evidence outside of speculation that there was a) a smaller production run, and b) a recall. And the reality is likely that neither happened. The 2000 copies was likely accurate, as while Nintendo had a minimum number of units per order (iirc it was around 10000, but I could be mistaken there), there's nothing that said that order couldn't have been filled incrementally, meaning that they could send out the first batch to stores and restock after sales went through. The odds are that any further stock was suspended as part of the deal with Nintendo to license the game to them. There is no real evidence of an outright recall, though many retailers may have sent back unsold stock for refunds, thus reducing the number of copies available. In conclusion, unless someone provides actual evidence of a limited run (sales numbers, production numbers, etc, from the source), or that a recall ever happened, then there is simply no evidence to have it not count toward a full set, licensed or otherwise, and indeed, there is more evidence for it to be included rather than excluded. I have no issue with people deciding that the price tag is too high, but simply say it's a set minus SE. But to say you have a full set because SE doesn't count without providing hard evidence is flat out asinine.

That's a good approach, but a dollar value may work better. If you're allowing 20 games, and a high end game comes up early in the month, you could overextend your budget later with some other pickups. But if you have a $500 limit, and you spend it on day one, you're done. Helps you think whether you want one big piece or several small ones. And if you need more than that, you save your allowance (in full or whatever's left) from previous months to get the extra funds. Another tip I have for people who have a narrow niche is to familiarize yourself with high demand and/or high value items on other systems. That way if you're browsing the bargain bin for, say, PS2 games, and you find a rare Xbox game for a steal, you know to pick it up for trade or sale to fund the games you really want. Never really worked for me as a multiplatform guy, as most of those deals would stay put, but occasionally I'd buy dupes for the same reason. It's how I ended up with multiple Panic Restaurant and Amazing Tater carts at various points, among countless others.

Well, I'm no longer funding that purchase, but I am still curious about how to tell if there's a blue or grey cart in the box. I'm assuming it'll be a small detail somewhere on the box that would identify it (assuming it wasn't a Rage Wars style revision that was only available by mail), and given the difference in value it could have, I definitely want to know what I have before I consider selling it (or possibly opening it).

It's a publisher variant with a name change. Therefore SE is a separate title completely from World Class Track Meet. We have two examples of publisher variants without a name change that people still count separately - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Pac-Man. Why? Because they are from different publishers. Nintendo didn't just put out the exact same game and call it a day, they went to the effort to rename it and change a few sprites in game. That puts it in a unique class that has zero justification for being left off a full retail set. Nintendo still acknowledged it's existence years after in the official "Pak Source" guide they put out back in the day, so it was never pulled from the market per se, it just ceased to be restocked. And arguing that it's a variant is silly...the first version is the original, and anything after is the variant. Thus the case can be made to exclude WCTM far easier than the exclusion of SE. It was not available only through special channels like the NWC carts. The Limited Edition argument is a new one, but even that doesn't hold weight to me. Sure, people don't always go for the Day 1 Switch games, but those are a) designed to be limited, which SE wasn't, and b) are typically identical to later versions at a ROM level. In both cases, Stadium Events doesn't fit the definition. I'd rather people stop arguing for reasons that it shouldn't count and just accept that they will simply never own a full fucking set. Period.

Yeah, with all the advice rolling in a similar direction, I'd say it's not worth it at this time. The fees associated, plus the additional shipping, are cost prohibitive. That said, with the exception of maybe one or two titles, they're also not worth selling at this point, so I'll be trimming the fat from other parts of the collection first. Maybe in a couple years I'll revisit the PS3 section of my library.

He's saying to do a GFM in conjunction with a t-shirt printer and probably an artist friend. Pay them a percentage of each sale for their work, and pocket the rest. It's actually a pretty solid idea in all honesty, if my immediate family weren't poor and my extended family insanely cheap

I don't disagree there. Although as someone who enjoys chasing achievements, I will say it sometimes breaths life into a game I'd otherwise be done with. Sometimes I even go back to a game I thought sucked a few years later, and I find that it's actually not as bad as I thought, or that I'm more into the game now than I was at the time...but I never would've popped it in if I didn't see the big glaring hole on the game list. Sure, some games are tedious time sinks, but as long as you're not one of the loonies that shoots for 100% completion in every game you play (a futile goal anyway with server closures, buggy achievements, etc), it can be a fun thing to pursue. Just don't take it too seriously and it can be a lot of fun!

Pretty much what everyone has said already. There's no rush, take your time, enjoy the ride, etc. Best real tip is to buy in bulk and sell or trade the dupes to soften the long term blow from shipping, but that can only really get you so far, and it sounds like you're past the point of finding lots with more than one or two needed games. I've been collecting for pretty much every system for 25+ years now, and I still don't have a full set. Just don't spend outside your means, as that leads to debt and burnout.

One minor detail I dig is that they're putting all three versions of Tournament Fighters. Most compilations like this would've just put the SNES version on and called it a day, but this allows anyone with nostalgia for any version to have their nostalgia trip. And given how rare Radical Rescue is, that's an awesome inclusion as well. I'm definitely looking forward to this one! I think what he's getting at is that the achievements assign a seemingly arbitrary point value to them, whereas the trophies are literally just a one-count in each tier level. They're fundamentally similar, but there are differences between the two systems too.

If I had any intention of playing them, they'd be opened already. As it is, I haven't even fired up my PS3 in like 3 years, so odds are they're not being played anyway. I'm planning to thin the herd out, and sealed games are worth more than CIB ones, so why would I open them at this point. It'd be silly to literally throw money away. If I wasn't looking to sell anything in the forseeable future though. Funny you mention recording contents though, as I'm the one who started doing that on the NES...it's totally something I'd do, but again, I am at a phase in my life where I am looking to get debt free and buy a house, and am planning to trim some fat off the peripheries of my collection to make it happen. Well that's good to know. Was unaware they didn't do PS3 yet, seeing as they do goddamn near everything else But yeah, there's already great info here. I may just play the wait-and-see game with them for the time being, as it may not be worth cashing out on them regardless of grading or not. But I'll keep checking for further...no decision is getting made just yet anyway.

Some excellent points there. I guess I should say that I'm not looking to cash out a decade from now, I'm thinking in one or two years at most. I'm personally not driven to collect sealed games, but there are definitely some lower dollar "must have" games in the pile. Uncharted 3 and GTA IV Complete Edition would definitely be considerations. Maybe Madden 25. But it's hard to say what people will end up getting the nostalgia bug for. Yeah, that's my biggest worry...that it'd be worthwhile south of the border, but the extra fees and shipping costs would eliminate the potential gains, or make them not worth the hassle. A couple of local friends apparently sent stuff in two years ago and still haven't received anything back, so that's a concern as well.

So here's the deal - I've decided to start paring down my collection a bit (wanna buy a house, so there's some fat that can be trimmed to make it happen), and I have a TON of sealed PS3 games that I landed for a couple bucks each. I know it's not the best time to sell them yet, so I was going to hang onto them for a few years, but eventually they may get shipped out the door. Since they're now in the "sell eventually" pile, I might want to maximize things by grading them. I feel like it's the best time to do so, as their values likely won't get any lower than they're at, making the grading cheaper overall, and since I'm not in a hurry to cash out on them the turnaround time isn't a factor either. However, I would likely grade them with VGA, as ethically I cannot bring myself to send a dime to WATA, which may affect the graded value as well (last I heard, WATA was still selling for more than VGA despite all their issues). So looking at it from a future resale perspective, is it better to send them in to VGA, or just leave them ungraded. Aside from the Resistance Trilogy and Puppeteer, none are really notable value-wise, at least at the moment, so it's hard to say if any would qualify as future risers. So yeah, just trying to decide whether it's worth the effort and expense to send them off to grade. Additionally, being Canadian, the shipping cost would likely be higher to send them in in the first place, which would need to be another consideration.

So I just got my PC hooked up after my move, hence my silence. I haven't done any gaming the last few days, and probably won't for a short time. But I'm alive, safe and healthy, and plan to get back in the full swing of things soon enough.

Haven't been playing much, so there hasn't been much progress to report. Pretty much in the midst of a move, gotta be out by Tuesday, so yeah, not much happening. I did play through two more games of Bases Loaded, so I'm now at 3-0, but I'm likely not gonna play more than a game or two a day of that. If anyone wants to take it, go nuts...just doing it more because an 80-win grind is gonna take forever, so I may as well chip away for my personal list when I don't feel like much else.

He's doing it now because he wanted to do it a lot sooner. Remember the Russian interference to get Trump elected? It's because he thought he could control him. When he realized that Trump was a literal wild card that he couldn't predict any more than he could control, he simply waited until a weaker president was elected. This is why we heard almost nothing about Ukraine since the annexation. It's because he basically locked in the status quo until he felt the winds were blowing his way again. A rare miscalculation on his part.

Mine are currently 985km (about 612 miles) away from me at this point, so it could be worse

Problem is, if Putin backs down, it hurts his reputation on the homefront. He literally can't afford to lose without something he can spin as a win to the Russian people. This is basically a war of attrition, and Russia simply has more funds, people, and resources than the Ukrainians. Regardless of the cost, if he keeps it up long enough, and Ukraine doesn't get help from foreign armies (you know, actual troops on the ground), he'll eventually get the victory.